Banned Bats - ASA?

[obbay]

Got it new for DD#1, thinking it was going to help her get up to the next level. It was supposed to be THE hot bat. First time I ever bought a top of the line bat. She liked her old bat (DeMarini .375) better and stuck with it until it developed a rattle last summer. She pulled it out and gave it a try once in awhile but it never seemed to have the same pop as her old bat. On a Sunday morning I would sometimes bring her to a field with a couple of bats and a tee so she could hit off the tee and see what bat worked best for her. the .375 worked better for her than the CF-3 or borrowed CF4 and CF5 and also the Rocketeck.

Suddenly last spring, DD#2 is the same height as her sister and her 30" bat is too short. After trying a couple of 31" bats, we try the 32" CF3 and she likes it! so I'm thinking that even though it's old, it hasn't seen a lot of At-Bats.

In response to your original question, I think the pop has left the CF3. She just got a new Xeno and we hit with it last night (indoors) and there is no question that the ball is coming off the new bat significantly faster! like night and day. she was hitting the balls before, now she's rifling them off the back wall at the end of the cage.

 

[mogsoftball]

What you are experiencing is the changes in the way bats are produced. The xenos come pretty much out of the wrapper hot. The CF3 will need broken in to really get full performance. If it has just been used in BP here and there it isn't broken in.

You will find plenty of people who think the CF3 will outhit newer bats when it is fully broke in.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Than you had a hitter which is where the game needs to return. The equipment should not be the difference and the ego of the parents and players (including adults) have made a lot of people rich.

I am not really sure I understood your response but I agree with you 1 billion % on banning the high-tech bats. (if this is what you meant)

It is not only my DD but ALL sizes & strengths of players on the teams DD has been on that pour money into bats.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

What you are experiencing is the changes in the way bats are produced. The xenos come pretty much out of the wrapper hot. The CF3 will need broken in to really get full performance. If it has just been used in BP here and there it isn't broken in.

You will find plenty of people who think the CF3 will outhit newer bats when it is fully broke in.

I agree - A CF3 in its prime hits about the best I have ever seen a bat (except for the Phenix)

 

[MTR]

I am not really sure I understood your response but I agree with you 1 billion % on banning the high-tech bats. (if this is what you meant)

It is not only my DD but ALL sizes & strengths of players on the teams DD has been on that pour money into bats.

My point was a hitter is a hitter and doesn't need a bat with "pop" to get the job done. That is why one of the best ways to kill an "equipment-fueled" ego is to have them hit with a wood bat which brings everything back to skill and mechanics.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

... That is why one of the best ways to kill an "equipment-fueled" ego is to have them hit with a wood bat which brings everything back to skill and mechanics.

That would be a great way to kill FP - make girls swing heavy wood bats. On top of that, wood bats also come in different levels of quality and performance, so you wouldn't be accomplishing anything on your goal of killing an "equipment-fueled" ego. smh

You're more aware of the initiatives in this area than most and have posted about them in the past, including changing the ball. I think you can offer much better alternatives that would de-emphasize the bat rather than a return to "the good old days."

Let's face it, regardless of the regulations, companies will still promote their products as being superior in order to get more sales and at a higher profit margin.

 

[MTR]

That would be a great way to kill FP - make girls swing heavy wood bats. On top of that, wood bats also come in different levels of quality and performance, so you wouldn't be accomplishing anything on your goal of killing an "equipment-fueled" ego. smh

And just what do you think they were swinging before aluminum?

You're more aware of the initiatives in this area than most and have posted about them in the past, including changing the ball. I think you can offer much better alternatives that would de-emphasize the bat rather than a return to "the good old days."

Let's face it, regardless of the regulations, companies will still promote their products as being superior in order to get more sales and at a higher profit margin.

The balls are already there, so why hasn't FP moved to them? I believe a far amount of that resistance is the misguided belief that it will make the game harder for some. But it is supposed to be hard and played through work and practice, not by updating the bat every year. Again, JMHO

 

[SoCal_Dad]

And just what do you think they were swinging before aluminum?
That is not a valid point because the level of pitching back then for FP wasn't near what it is today. Besides, it wouldn't accomplish your stated goal - there would still be performance differences in bats.

The balls are already there, so why hasn't FP moved to them? I believe a far amount of that resistance is the misguided belief that it will make the game harder for some.
I presume you are talking about the bouncier (higher COR), lower compression balls that were optional last year for SP and required this year. Maybe ASA is just working their way down to FP like they are with the new bat standard. Slappers would probably like the bouncier balls...

But it is supposed to be hard and played through work and practice, not by updating the bat every year. Again, JMHO

It is hard and played through work and practice. LOL Let's see how you do against a top FP pitcher - you can use any bat you want.

But what a great idea - people would be buying several bats a year to replace broken ones. Not everyone buys a new bat every year and you should know that from doing bat inspections.

If the current bat certification process is working, there shouldn't be much difference in bats from one year to the next. I've read ASA's new 2013 bat standard allows some higher performance bats. Face it, your beef is really with ASA. Anything else is misguided because we just play under the rules provided and have no real input on them.

 

[00fpdaddy]

Same batter with both bats, take your walmart special with a .47/525 ball then take a mako, lxt cf6 or whatever with a clincher ball (mush) guess what happens? Technology has changed the game (bat/ball) Organizations change standards every couple years, why? Money money money.

 

[MTR]

Warning, went off the deep end here. Long response.

And just what do you think they were swinging before aluminum?
That is not a valid point because the level of pitching back then for FP wasn't near what it is today. Besides, it wouldn't accomplish your stated goal - there would still be performance differences in bats.

The pitcher was also closer without the leap and crow hops (yet they were still bringing the ball in the 60's) or the adjusted interpretations to give the pitcher an unfair advantage. Even with the newer bats, you didn't see a swing in the game until they started moving them back. And any difference would be minimal since production methods are rather limited with wood. Of course, by now, they would be using bamboo which provides a little more pop per ounce, but also holds up better.

So let's move back to the wood-level performing bats, have a safe ball and see who can hit and who cannot. But that will never fly and simply because people in this country want to see power and dramatic long-distance home runs and get bored with small ball. BTW, you also didn't have the same type of slapping you do now.

The balls are already there, so why hasn't FP moved to them? I believe a far amount of that resistance is the misguided belief that it will make the game harder for some.
I presume you are talking about the bouncier (higher COR), lower compression balls that were optional last year for SP and required this year. Maybe ASA is just working their way down to FP like they are with the new bat standard. Slappers would probably like the bouncier balls...

Actually, they've been optional for about 3 years now and yes, mandatory this year, though ASA has used them in championship play for a couple of years.

They have been tested for FP & the NCAA has looked into them also. The impact with a player is less and supposedly mean the difference between a bad headache and a fractured skull. Yet, the FP community is still dragging their feet. Why? Because these balls were developed in part to eliminate the accidental home runs. The hitters who can hit, still will. Those who have been getting by on the equipment providing the hit, may have to raise their skill level or game plan.

In the SP game, there were many doubters thinking that the .52/300 was a "mush" ball. Right up until TeamUSA member Brian Wegman jokingly pulled out his wood bat in Cincinnati and promptly hit one beyond the lights over 310' away. Sort of killed the theory that the ball wouldn't travel. So, those who can hit will, those who cannot need to learn.

It is hard and played through work and practice. LOL Let's see how you do against a top FP pitcher - you can use any bat you want.

Been there, done that. But LONG ago, back in the early 70's in the USN. Played a lot military teams and some from the Philly/South Jersey area.

Played both FP & SP, sometimes on the same night. I was a punch & judy hitter in the FP, so I just needed to make contact. SP game, I was a place-hitter, didn't worry about power since most games back then were on open fields, just worried about hitting them where they weren't. Took a lot of adjustment, but more for SP as I had never played softball of any type until I was in the service.

But what a great idea - people would be buying several bats a year to replace broken ones. Not everyone buys a new bat every year and you should know that from doing bat inspections.

I do know that and not just from bat inspections. OTOH, the older bats work better with the newer balls which is why you see some of the SP people holding onto bats longer. But many people do, don't know which buys more, FP or SP. And you can see by the posts on all boards, including this one, how much emphasis is placed on upgrading bats to give the player more pop.

If the current bat certification process is working, there shouldn't be much difference in bats from one year to the next. I've read ASA's new 2013 bat standard allows some higher performance bats. Face it, your beef is really with ASA. Anything else is misguided because we just play under the rules provided and have no real input on them.

If you have been paying attention over the years, I'm very supportive of ASA's bat testing and standards, but it is all about the balance between the game, competition and money, there is no way around those issues. When the double-wall came about and the engineers discovered new procedures and compositions that would increase the "pop", the public demanded control, so ASA developed a method to try to keep some safety in the procedure. The manufacturers immediately began to work their way around the specs finding every loop-hole they could abuse, just to say their bat provides more pop. One of the companies readily admitted they changed their process AFTER the prototype was approved with a mea culpa "claiming" they didn't believe their change would make a difference. Now came the infamous "recertification" of bats and with further testing and reconfiguration of the testing procedures and spec came the 2004 certification. Then almost immediately follows the "grandfathering" of bats the manufacturers knew would go out of spec through use and only protested when ASA started testing game-used bats. Apparently the wording in the contract or whatever the official name of the document used was so vague that ASA allowed some of these to stay in the game for a couple of years.

Then the players wanting their newly found "power" albeit artificial whined that if safety was truly the issue, dummy down the balls. Of course, the minute that happened, they complained about that. Softball people, worse complainers than sailors.

I don't blame ASA any more than the manufacturers that not only cheat but enable others to do the same. The companies seem to have settled down the last few years, but I only see that as a result of tighter specs.

And again, if the weak-minded of this country weren't so infatuated and taken by little gimmicks that make you "run faster, jump higher" (wasn't that Keds?), I don't believe there would be so many issues that the softball community has encountered. Oh, BTW, I was also one of the first to raise the flag on FP boards about the bats only to be told, quite emphatically, that such an issue was a SP problem and we would never see such issues in the FP world. Yeah, sure. Again, my issue isn't with ASA, but with the community in general.