76 mph

[LEsoftballdad]

Speaking in absolutes ^^^^^

Saying it's possible ^^^^^

See the difference? the 2nd post is much more palatable and breeds discussion and discovery. It is possible that's the case, but you need a much larger dataset along with some science/physics backing it up in order to make an absolute statement.

Our resident scientist got banned. I told him about this thread, and he got a good chuckle out of it.

 

[lostcreek1]

She is 6’1 with what looks like very long arms. That in itself gives her an advantage over 99.9% of all other women on earth.

 

[RADcatcher]

An article where Lisa Fernandez talked about someone told her she did not have the right body type to be a good pitcher.
What did they know? Certainly not how determined Lisa Fernandez is.

Lisa Fernandez On Her Legendary Playing, Coaching Career

Softball America caught up with Olympian Lisa Fernandez about her legendary playing and coaching career.

www.softballamerica.com

 

[PJR202]

I'm sure most coaches wouldn't teach monkey butt but there are plenty that don't pay attention to it. I know of a few in my area.

My mostly (ok, completely) worthless opinion is that everyone is overthinking this. She's just got the frame, the musculature/flexibility/recruitment/genetic luck, and she probably threw a million pitches until she figured out how be stable at the point of release. Anyone can get accurate if the arm has a consistent reference point (in her case it looks like the upper arm is digging in) and the body isn't tipping or lunging up/down at the point of release. She looks stable to me, even if it's only for the tenth of a second she requires in order to cut the ball loose.

I try to explain front side resistance and a stable release point to my kids by comparing it to one of the arm-style pitching machines. The arm was successfully designed/tuned to accurate throws because the rest of the machine doesn't move. If the machine is wobbly, it'll never throw correctly. This girl's machine is wonky, but it's in a consistent motion and stable at the time of release. Most girls that have those mechanics have their body in-motion during release. Over and over I've told these kids "regardless of what your arm/hand are doing, if your body is moving, the ball is moving."

Yesterday I was watching an older LSU game and the pitcher was Shelby Wickersham. That's possibly the most unorthodox finish I've ever seen. At a glance, the FSR is horrendous. Like watching a bad middle school game. Slow it down, and you'll see that very bent leg is locked-in for the release. I'd love to know how she that developed that style. It had to be pretty confusing for opponents the first time through the batting order.

 

[ArmWhip]

This is an assumption

Actually I think it's a deduction. If they had HE coaches and now pitch with IR where did they 'learn' the IR? The only possible answer is that it's self taught.

 

[RADcatcher]

Actually I think it's a deduction. If she had an HE coach and now pitches IR where did she 'learn' the IR? The only possible answer is that it's self taught.

Okay, the important word in your sentencing is 'IF'



Simply for clarity was asking if you knew factually about her instruction.
Because you were commenting about a particular player.
*To not create an incorrect assumption/ rumor about a player, from you wrote you don't actually know about that particular players type of instruction she may of or may not have had.

 

[ArmWhip]

Okay, the important word in your sentencing is 'IF'



Simply for clarity was asking if you knew factually about her instruction.
Because you were commenting about a particular player.
*To not create an incorrect assumption/ rumor about a player, from you wrote you don't actually know about that particular players type of instruction she may of or may not have had.

I went back and edited my post so that you don't have to worry about it starting any unfounded rumors about Pickens. And to make it more accurately answer your reply to my original post which is below, and doesn't even mention Pickens.

There are a lot of successful pitchers that came from HE instructors, so even though they had an 'instructor' you have to say they were mostly self taught.

And I still say it is a deduction not an assumption.

 

[sluggers]

Okay the important word in your sentencing is 'IF'
LOL but that's kind of deduction by assumption because if somebody doesn't know the difference of those two things how would they know one over the other to even study it or try it. They themselves may not know

Simple. By the time a kid starts to learn pitching, she already knows IR.

IR of the forearm is a basic anatomical motion for quickly rotating an object. A kid learns IR about 2 when she learns how to turn a doorknob.

In sports, IR is used in almost all physical activity that involves throwing or hitting an object hard: table tennis, tennis, javelin, shot put, hitting, golf, and on and on. When a kid starts to learn pitching, she is already skilled at throwing overhand, which uses IR.

The kid's mind (the body + the brain) knows to use IR to throw something fast.
Eventually, if a kid is taught HE, pushes herself, and tries to throw harder, the mind will eventually use IR. (It's a whole lot easier to be taught to use IR.)

Example 1: Jenny Finch was taught HE by her dad. If you watch her instruction videos, she teaches HE. But, if you watch her pitch during a game or the time she shattered a plexiglass window, she throws IR. You can see the same thing with Lisa Fernandez.

Example 2: My DD. I was with her every step of the way. I know *exactly* what she was taught. The PC taught her HE and I reinforced that. When she began to get "good," she began finished with her palm down. I tried, unsuccessfully, to correct her. Many years later, I learned about IR. I looked at some old videos of her in college, and *surprise* she had the ball up at 9.

 

[RADcatcher]

I went back and edited my post so that you don't have to worry about it starting any unfounded rumors about Pickens. And to make it more accurately answer your reply to my original post which is below, and doesn't even mention Pickens.

Think your comment has a valid discussion point. But I do think it was more of a general comment which can go either direction with pitchers and instruction. IR or HE or whatever.
Of which both of those things are not always commonly discussed when talking about pitching...as they are on this website. Really pitchers, hitters Etc are all teaching their own body how to do what it needs to do even if the direction is coming from a book, a video, or a person. Success and failures trying other things etc.

And I still say it is a deduction not an assumption.

Sure whatever it is for you.

Simple. By the time a kid starts to learn pitching, she already knows IR.

I know you were describing how naturally a body could move IR but that doesn't mean that's what's happening from the start. For that, not on board with that comment 'already knows IR.' Simply having seen some pretty interesting beginner stuff.

Who knows maybe their first instruction could be with HE instruction. It happens.
As you commented eventually may change. But then again not all do.

 

[Shawn]

Think your comment has a valid discussion point. But I do think it was more of a general comment which can go either direction with pitchers and instruction. IR or HE or whatever.
Of which both of those things are not always commonly discussed when talking about pitching...as they are on this website. Really pitchers, hitters Etc are all teaching their own body how to do what it needs to do even if the direction is coming from a book, a video, or a person. Success and failures trying other things etc.

Sure whatever it is for you.

I know you were describing how naturally a body could move IR but that doesn't mean that's what's happening from the start. For that, not on board with that comment 'already knows IR.' Simply having seen some pretty interesting beginner stuff.

Who knows maybe their first instruction could be with HE instruction. It happens.
As you commented eventually may change. But then again not all do.

I’ve never seen someone demonstrate the spirals naturally when learning.