Need More Than 3 Pitches?

CoachCeetar said:

You guys keep referencing this fictional 10 year old who's got all the pitches but doesn't really, but two things about that..

1. Why shouldn't a 10 year old (or a 12 year old) be fooling around with all the pitches? they're learning to pitch, they're learning the pitches, they're learning all the different things they can do. Touch 'em all! Yes, obviously they're not masters of these pitch, and we don't have to take that argument seriously, but so what? Let them be excited about learning and pitching! Most of the time they're gonna have to figure out that they don't really have that pitch the hard way anyway.

2. That doesn't mean having more than 3 pitches is necessarily bad because some over-excited to see what she can do with a softball kid (or her parent) is a braggart. It's not a binary between three pitches at 90% mastery versus 6 at 50%. It's a blend, there's a time and place for everything. Maybe one kid really masters one pitch, but struggles with getting pitch 2 and 3 to that level, but maybe gets 4-5 more pitches to say..70% mastery. Who's to say she can't be MORE effective that way, than if she'd mastered the three?

To soft-toss another cliche onto the pile, it's about being a pitcher not a thrower.

Click to expand...

I think it’s more about when dad or mom fills out the TB tryout form and it asks about “how many pitches does your dd have and which ones” where it becomes an issue.

Vertigo said:

I think it’s more about when dad or mom fills out the TB tryout form and it asks about “how many pitches does your dd have and which ones” where it becomes an issue.

Click to expand...

oooh, are the TB coaches fooled by that? Hmm... My daughter sometimes flips her hand weird and it's very curvy, can I call that a new pitch?

CoachCeetar said:

oooh, are the TB coaches fooled by that? Hmm... My daughter sometimes flips her hand weird and it's very curvy, can I call that a new pitch?

Click to expand...

Because if you keep trying these other pitches, you take focus away from pitches that they should be focusing on. Fastball and change are where it all starts. Master those before messing with other pitches.

Heck, MLB pitchers learn a change at the major league level, but we're supposed to believe a girl who's 12 can throw five different ones?

CoachCeetar said:

oooh, are the TB coaches fooled by that? Hmm... My daughter sometimes flips her hand weird and it's very curvy, can I call that a new pitch?

Click to expand...

Some parents definitely would.

LEsoftballdad said:

Because if you keep trying these other pitches, you take focus away from pitches that they should be focusing on. Fastball and change are where it all starts. Master those before messing with other pitches.

Heck, MLB pitchers learn a change at the major league level, but we're supposed to believe a girl who's 12 can throw five different ones?

Click to expand...

Not everything's a min-max grind to the most efficient path to D1. Maybe she just likes tinkering, but no, you're not supposed to believe she can like, reliably, throw them. Doesn't mean she shouldn't try.

CoachCeetar said:

Not everything's a min-max grind to the most efficient path to D1. Maybe she just likes tinkering, but no, you're not supposed to believe she can like, reliably, throw them. Doesn't mean she shouldn't try.

Click to expand...

I'm all for trying them to see what works best, but once you see what they're most capable of handling, drop the nonsense of all the other pitches. You can tell early on if a girl has the ability to throw a particular pitch.

bsbs said:

I heard Teagan Kaven mention Bill changing her riseball on a podcast this morning. I thought that was funny.

Click to expand...

LOL, really? What podcast?

For anyone who's interested, Jordy Bahl threw last weekend for the first time. She only did about 40 pitches but, the main thing is she said it was pain free. Obviously neither she or Nebraska is going to push it. I'd be surprised if she throws in any fall games this year.

Hillhouse said:

LOL, really? What podcast?

Click to expand...

The Car Ride Home with the Alliance Fastpitch.

mmeece said:

. . . how do you find out which pitches they are if you don't try to learn almost every type of spin/pitch? DDs first pitching coach wouldn't teach her a new pitch/spin until she "mastered" the current one. . . .

Click to expand...

Most (maybe not all) pitchers gravitate toward upspin or downspin once they have developed a reasonably consistent set of mechanics. Upspin pitchers tend to have their weight back (lots of "front side resistance"), want to stay inside the ball (their "fastballs" are generally bulletspin), and exhibit more layback (external rotation) later in the downswing, whereas downspin pitchers tend to be over the front foot (you'll see that little hop forward after release), are behind the ball at release (fastballs have truer drop spin), and the hand is often more neutral between palm up and down by nine o'clock. (These aren't rules, obviously, just tendencies.)

A pitching coach should be able to identify where an athlete falls on this continuum and therefore what movement pitches are likely to be most effective--or are even available. If a coach is of the view that you have to learn each pitch in a certain order--or worse, that you can't try a different pitch until you have "mastered" some preordained earlier one--that is a huge disservice. Pitch design isn't like math, where you have to know algebra to understand calculus. Some riseballs pitchers never develop a drop (they just cannot do it)--but they still get by just fine with upspin, a change, and a bulletspin fastball thrown down in the zone--even though a drop is supposedly the first pitch that everyone learns. And conversely, some dropball pitchers can never spin it backwards. So I totally agree that pitchers should experiment, but the trial and error should be directed. It should not be total guesswork where you spend a year cycling through eight different pitches trying to figure out what works best. Your coach should know (or have a reasonable idea) what is likely to work and direct valuable practice time there.