What do I tell her

[sluggers]

As to the 55 MPH question--

Personally, I've caught the former pitching coach at DePaul tossing 45 MPH riseballs. She purposely lowered the speed because she was afraid she would hurt me if she threw hard (and she was correct).

The physics are pretty simple:

The amount of break is directly proportional to the speed of the ball and the spin on the ball. So, a 55 MPH curve will break about 20% less than a 65 MPH curve, assuming the same amount of spin. Of course, some people can put more spin on the ball at lower speeds.

HOWEVER: The perception of a batter is quite a bit different as to the amount of break. A really good breaking pitch travels outside the field of vision the batter. If a ball breaks enough to get outside the field of vision, then the batter literally can't see the ball, which of course makes the batter believe the ball has moved more.

A riseball is a perfect example...if the head and eyes are trained downward for a belt high pitch, and the ball is in fact at shoulder height, the batter will lose sight of the ball. So, the batter believes the ball has broken a great deal.

However, a batter who has picked up a clue from the pitcher that the pitcher will throw a rise adjusts her head and eyes so that she won't lose sight of the ball. To the batter who knows what pitch the pitcher is throwing, the ball appears only to have a slight amount of break.

 

[EP Dad]

I did forget to mention that spin is a key ingredient to movement.

Still, from my personal observations I have never seen a pitch less than 55 break. I have watched hundreds of pitchers from LL minors through DI college.

I'm OK with a daddy thinking that his pitcher is throwing a drop ball at 50.

Oh, come on. I'm the first one to laugh about the 12U girl who's throwing 60 and has 6 pitches, but the ball can move with the proper spin WAY before 50 M.P.H.

 

[Coach JV]

6 pitches at 11 yo? That's awesome (lol) My dd's pitching coach
has taught her the fastball, change, peel drop, drop curve, rise curve and
riseball. This being said, she throws at 58 mph and has a fast ball (great location)
Change up and drop. He teaches all pitches, she uses only what she is comfortable with.
A PC would be doing a disservice to students by not showing all pitches. My dd pitching coach
has never indicated that she should be able to throw all. Now, for the majority of her lesson, she
works only on the 3 pitches

 

[Madsdad]

For what it is worth, I think what one person thinks is movement is not what another might consider movement. My DD throws a backdoor C/U that tails in nicely at 37 (she is a lefty) but I would not consider this movement. I don't consider 4" to 6" movement. I think we have all seen video of real breaking pitches that move nearly 2 feet.

As for learning another pitch, my girl is learning a second c/u. When she is struggling with her flip she can go to her backdoor. Its nice to have something working at all times and having something with a different look never hurts. JMHO

 

[Greenmonsters]

For what it is worth, I think what one person thinks is movement is not what another might consider movement. My DD throws a backdoor C/U that tails in nicely at 37 (she is a lefty) but I would not consider this movement. I don't consider 4" to 6" movement. I think we have all seen video of real breaking pitches that move nearly 2 feet.

As for learning another pitch, my girl is learning a second c/u. When she is struggling with her flip she can go to her backdoor. Its nice to have something working at all times and having something with a different look never hurts. JMHO

2 feet, Wow! but regardless, if you agree with Bob Feller that "hitting is about timing and pitching is about disrupting timing" - the million dollar question is how much speed and/or movement are necessary to cause the batter to miss the sweet spot of the barrel by half an inch????

 

[chinamigarden]

For what it is worth, I think what one person thinks is movement is not what another might consider movement. My DD throws a backdoor C/U that tails in nicely at 37 (she is a lefty) but I would not consider this movement. I don't consider 4" to 6" movement. I think we have all seen video of real breaking pitches that move nearly 2 feet.

As for learning another pitch, my girl is learning a second c/u. When she is struggling with her flip she can go to her backdoor. Its nice to have something working at all times and having something with a different look never hurts. JMHO

2 feet, thats incredible. Starts out inside the left side batters box and nips the black inside on the righthanded batter.

 

[Carty]

My DD is 16 now. She has a variety of pitches, one in the works (rise). Not every one works every day - but the majority are good on any given day. She knows which ones she can count on, whether it is the day or in general. And yes they do break when thrown properly. I cant say enough about her PC for this. IMO the road to having these pitches was the fact that they started with one - FB. When she became consistant with that one, they started a new one. Never have they just rushed to throw a bunch of pitches. She also knew that when the next pitch got introduced it meant the he was satified with her work on the others. The car ride home those nights were certainly moments when she was the proudest. Her stats are reflecting this work that she and her PC have done.

I wouldnt worry about the number of pitches, if you have control, you get the results.

 

[Momo'sDad]

My 11yr DD has been pitching a year and a half with a PC. He has done great and stresses mechanics. She is throwing in the upper 40's consistently, and the CU is coming along. PC preaches to throw full speed or not at all. She is about at full control and have introduced her to the concepts of the command needed as she progresses (control = strikes, command=inside corner). This year she has joined a travel team. The have 2 other pitchers, that are good but far slower than her. Control for all of them is about the same. Problem is that they brag about the number of pitches that they have (or claim to know) 5 for one 6 for the other. None of them are very good at all. My DD is now upset the me and her PC have not and will not let her have her third pitch yet. I have tried to explain that this is for her benefit and she is faster than them (even though I think they may be more athletic). But at 11 she does not see this. Her PC is great and I am worried she now thinks he is not.

I teach my daughter not to brag and I teach her not to gossip.

When she tells me that she's heard some gossip, I tell her to dismiss it and to focus on what really matters. As a pitcher, she's taught to worry about her job, not anyone else's.

I constantly reinforce this lesson and if she's lucky, by the time she's my age, she'll totally understand why.

 

[starsnuffer]

It's fair to say that there are a lot of diagonals going on that might alter ones perception about how a pitch moves. "rise" balls released 10 inches off the ground crossing the plate at the batter's armpits. Curve balls released to the 3rd base side of the rubber "breaking" outside to the batter, ect. This is not breaking movement, this is pitching in other then a straight line. It's effective, but it is not movement.

That said, I've caught plenty of my daughters lessons and caught her instructor teaching a spin for a new pitch or two, she'll throw to me from 20 feet away to demonstrate the release, and the ball breaks significantly and is difficult for me to catch. Speed is not a factor in movement as much as spin is, UNLESS ones idea of a breaking pitch has nothing to do with spin and only to do with "4 seams vs 2 seams". If one is relying on a "2 seam" pitch to create movement for them, then yes, speed is the only factor involved. I call this an uncontrollable and useless fastball, but opinions vary.

-W

 

[mrslug01]

My DD throws low to mid 50's and her best pitch is her drop/curve. We set a string up at above knee high about ten feet in front of the plate. She can and often does hit the string and often times I catch the ball 6 inches above the ground. Sometimes it will hit the string and bounce in front. She has long fingers and was at a clinic last year and was at 18 rpm on the rev fire. I didn't start wearing a face mask until this pitch really started dropping like this. It's a true drop.