I think you forgot to mention another key ingredient to creating movement: the rate of spin per second. To say that "a pitch will not break until speed is 55+" is a fallacy. Conversely, you could have an "upper 50s" pitch with very little spin and not much movement. High spin rate + speed = movement.
What do I tell her
- Thread starter redhack
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I think you forgot to mention another key ingredient to creating movement: the rate of spin per second. To say that "a pitch will not break until speed is 55+" is a fallacy. Conversely, you could have an "upper 50s" pitch with very little spin and not much movement. High spin rate + speed = movement.
I think from a physics perspective, the forward movement should not be a factor other than the bite of the seams as they rotate. I would think spin rate is the real key. Based on a jugs pitching machine at 40mph they can throw a heck of a curveball with all that spin.
I don't think most 10-12yr/old have the hand size to get the grip to get the spin needed. Finger tip grip is key.
I don't think most 10-12yr/old have the hand size to get the grip to get the spin needed. Finger tip grip is key.
My nephew called the other day. His 12 YO DD is a catcher. The new pitcher's dad was complaining that my niece isn't set up right. I asked what pitches the new girl has and he named about 6. I said "No, she doesn't."
I have 3 11 YOs that have been coming to me for 3 years. Two of them are nibbling at 50 mph. We are still trying to get their CU, perfected. I want them to hit it, at will. My problem is, no one is calling the pitches. Not in rec or TB. I want them throwing the CU at least once a batter. I am going to move on soon, to a peel drop, just to keep them learning.
But, you and the PC are right. Plus, I think that the 3 pitchers need to be supporting each other, not stirring up trouble.
I have 3 11 YOs that have been coming to me for 3 years. Two of them are nibbling at 50 mph. We are still trying to get their CU, perfected. I want them to hit it, at will. My problem is, no one is calling the pitches. Not in rec or TB. I want them throwing the CU at least once a batter. I am going to move on soon, to a peel drop, just to keep them learning.
But, you and the PC are right. Plus, I think that the 3 pitchers need to be supporting each other, not stirring up trouble.
- Dec 25, 2010
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I disagree. Alot.
My kid (12) has'nt ever had a radar gun pointed at her, I don't have any idea but if I had to guess I doubt she's hitting 50 mph. I catch her all the time and on a day when she's "in the zone" with her fastball the ball definitely drops ( like a true overhand curveball). Sometimes more than others. When it comes off her hand incorrectly it breaks like a slider (down and away from a right hander). Sometimes it just comes in flat...
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Coach-n-Dad
Crazy Daddy
- Oct 31, 2008
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I did forget to mention that spin is a key ingredient to movement.
Still, from my personal observations I have never seen a pitch less than 55 break. I have watched hundreds of pitchers from LL minors through DI college.
I'm OK with a daddy thinking that his pitcher is throwing a drop ball at 50.
Creating movement is not an "all" or "none" proposition, its on a continuum of degrees of movement. From 8U - 18U, as you go from a 10inch ball from 30 feet all the way through to a 12inch ball thrown at 43 feet you are going to go from little movement to more movement as the spin rates and speeds increase for those ages. There isn't a magic number where movement "mysteriously" appears but its gradual over the years as the pitchers get better at spinning the ball and throwing with more speed. I applaud the young pitcher who works on her spins to see baby step increases in her movement pitches. And yes, a drop ball with good spin, can be thrown at 50mph, its just may not break as much as you would like it to. To say it doesn't have any movement is doing the pitcher a disservice.
- Nov 29, 2009
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Whatever you're paying your PC it's not enough. He is doing EXACTLY what an 11U pitcher needs to be doing. He is moving her along at sure and steady pace making sure her foundation for her mechanics are all in place.
What you need to do is to have your daughter talk to some college pitchers about pitching and NOT another 11U girl. Each pitcher develops at their own pace and I'm sure some old girls can make a much bigger impression on her then anyone else.
- Oct 22, 2009
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I am also one of those instructors that will not teach a student a new pitch until they have good mechanics, speed, control and discipline.
And yes some of my pitchers do complain because they do not get enough mound time as the other pitchers because they do not have as many pitches.
I try and explain to them that these pitchers are not throwing what they say they are throwing, and they do understand a little, they always end up having to close the games for the pitchers with all the pitches that don't work and cannot find the plate.
The other night I saw a kid I had given 4 lessons to last summer as an 8yr old. Her parents wanted to get her ready for 10u fall ball. They left me after the 4 lessons because she was not at the plate yet. I didn't put her there because she was not ready for it yet, I'm not going to have her on the plate throwing the ball all over tarnation without any resemblance of mechanics whatsoever.
She is 9 now and warming up for her game. So it's been almost a yr with her new PC. I watched her throw that ball everywhere and even over the backstop a couple of times.
After that her dad called out "Change-up!", then again she threw that everywhere. Then he yelled, "Drop!" and the same control, then I heard "screwball!" I was like, "wha!?" So I watched her. No, no screwball, I could not even tell if she was trying to throw one, everything was coming out like her fastball (bowling style) with her follow through over shoulder.
Well her parents are happy and I'm sure bragging at everyone that she has 4 pitches at 9yrs old. And Iw as quite surprised he didn't yell out curve and riseball!
I went over and watched a little of her game but became quite bored watching her 4 pitches sail everywhere.
And yes some of my pitchers do complain because they do not get enough mound time as the other pitchers because they do not have as many pitches.
I try and explain to them that these pitchers are not throwing what they say they are throwing, and they do understand a little, they always end up having to close the games for the pitchers with all the pitches that don't work and cannot find the plate.
The other night I saw a kid I had given 4 lessons to last summer as an 8yr old. Her parents wanted to get her ready for 10u fall ball. They left me after the 4 lessons because she was not at the plate yet. I didn't put her there because she was not ready for it yet, I'm not going to have her on the plate throwing the ball all over tarnation without any resemblance of mechanics whatsoever.
She is 9 now and warming up for her game. So it's been almost a yr with her new PC. I watched her throw that ball everywhere and even over the backstop a couple of times.
After that her dad called out "Change-up!", then again she threw that everywhere. Then he yelled, "Drop!" and the same control, then I heard "screwball!" I was like, "wha!?" So I watched her. No, no screwball, I could not even tell if she was trying to throw one, everything was coming out like her fastball (bowling style) with her follow through over shoulder.
Well her parents are happy and I'm sure bragging at everyone that she has 4 pitches at 9yrs old. And Iw as quite surprised he didn't yell out curve and riseball!
I went over and watched a little of her game but became quite bored watching her 4 pitches sail everywhere.
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My DD is A 11yo and her PC has taught her five different pitches and tells her no matter what my DD says it's all she will need for the next few years if done correctly.
Pitches are as follows CU, FB low inside, FB low outside, FB high inside, FB high outside
Basically she just wants her to hit her spots at will and never throw down the middle. She told my DD when she can do that eight out of ten pitches she will teach her whatever she wants to learn.
We do alot of FB CU one and one pitches PC drills it into her that being able to work between those two and making them look the same is much more important than have 6 pretend pitches.
Pitches are as follows CU, FB low inside, FB low outside, FB high inside, FB high outside
Basically she just wants her to hit her spots at will and never throw down the middle. She told my DD when she can do that eight out of ten pitches she will teach her whatever she wants to learn.
We do alot of FB CU one and one pitches PC drills it into her that being able to work between those two and making them look the same is much more important than have 6 pretend pitches.
- Aug 23, 2010
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I love reading this site. I get my laugh for the day. I know lots of 10U players that have several pitches. They have perfected all of them.
Fastball
Pitch 1 - in the dirt
Pitch 2 - against the backstop
Pitch 3 - over the backstop
Pitch 4 - in the batter's leg
Now repeat sequence with Change-up, Drop, Rise, Screw, Curve. Heck that is about 24 different pitches.
On a serious note, two pitches at this age is more then enough. Keep working on the Fastball and Change-up. When she is ready, the Peel Drop would probably be the pitch that I would introduce next. I wish some of these over zealous PCM Dad's would please stop ruining their kids. Remember the fable about the Tortoise and the Hare, it is not where you start, but where you finish. Those same kids that have 6 pitches now will probably be playing left field by 14U. Teach her sound mechanics and you reap what you sow.
Fastball
Pitch 1 - in the dirt
Pitch 2 - against the backstop
Pitch 3 - over the backstop
Pitch 4 - in the batter's leg
Now repeat sequence with Change-up, Drop, Rise, Screw, Curve. Heck that is about 24 different pitches.
On a serious note, two pitches at this age is more then enough. Keep working on the Fastball and Change-up. When she is ready, the Peel Drop would probably be the pitch that I would introduce next. I wish some of these over zealous PCM Dad's would please stop ruining their kids. Remember the fable about the Tortoise and the Hare, it is not where you start, but where you finish. Those same kids that have 6 pitches now will probably be playing left field by 14U. Teach her sound mechanics and you reap what you sow.
