Hi guys. Me and my 12YO DD have really been working hard this last year. Here is a video of her pitching. She has worked hard on her mechanics to get rid of the hello elbow we were originally taught to pitch. I think her IR looks pretty good but I'm certainly no expert. My main concern is that she hasn't gained any speed on her pitches in almost a year even though we switched to IR. I'm hoping maybe some of you guys have some iinsights or drills for us. We pitch 5 days a week without fail. About 75 pitches. She is still stuck at around 43 MPH which puts her closer to the bottom of average for her age (and slower than many girls throwing with hello elbow in our travel ball area). The only thing I can think of is that when I am catching it does sometimes look like "bullet spin" to me. I am wondering if we are having problems with the snap. From a personal perspective, I can see how it is very hard to get the fingers all the way underneath the ball pointing straight down at the ground while still using IR. To me, a "rolling of the hand over the ball" feels the most natural when I try to throw with IR and I think that is what she is doing. If I tell a person to go from palm up to palm down, they are going to IR and the fingers are going to naturally point away from the body as they do it and NOT straight down at the ground which is what is needed to get a good spin, right? We tried to work more on getting a good 12-6 spin on the ball but she immediately started to finish in more of a hello elbow position and started to not roll her hand over to palm down so we quit that. Not to muddy the water with too many topics, but it appears that all the IR pitchers roll their hand over to a palm down position after release when they are throwing a fast ball with the exception of Hillhouse who keeps his hand palm up but finishes over on the other shoulder of his body. Would you say the hand roll over is more of a preference for IR and is simply what most girls naturally do in order to stop the acceleration of their hand once the pitch is released? In other words, it feels to me like once I snap the ball and release it, popping my elbow out a little and allowing my hand to turn over is a gentle way to put the brakes on my arm circle as opposed to stopping it abruptly. Am I way off base with this? Thanks for any insights you can provide. This forum is the greatest on the web and has really changed both my girls pitching abilities for the better!
Time for another video...IR, the finish, and more questions from a confused dad
- Thread starter leerph
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I am by far an expert but she looks very good. My DD and I are going through the same journey (HE to IR). One thing I have noticed is when we take a few days off, even a week off at the most, my DD comes back with more zip on the ball. Take it for what its worth, if anything, but perhaps taking a few consecutive days off a week would allow her muscles to gain some strentgh by allowing them to rest. Good luck.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
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Maybe its my lousy vision but I think I see her striding at over 100% of her height. How tall is she and what is her stride length?
I cant even attempt to read the huge square of letters in the original post. Can you boil that down please?
I cant even attempt to read the huge square of letters in the original post. Can you boil that down please?
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halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
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Her stride foot starts coming forward of the rubber well before the ball comes forward of the rubber. Try and time it so they both come forward at the same time. That present timing is holding back available speed.
Taking that long of a stride is also slowing down her arm circle.
She is starting out on the far right side of the rubber and the stride foot looks like she is landing right on the invisible line from the edge of the rubber to home plate.
Shhe is WAY out of balance and is falling off to the left as she releases the ball, she is leaning over to the left also.
She has very good strength. I hate sounding all negative here but all those little things add up to big speed loss.
Taking that long of a stride is also slowing down her arm circle.
She is starting out on the far right side of the rubber and the stride foot looks like she is landing right on the invisible line from the edge of the rubber to home plate.
Shhe is WAY out of balance and is falling off to the left as she releases the ball, she is leaning over to the left also.
She has very good strength. I hate sounding all negative here but all those little things add up to big speed loss.
- May 17, 2012
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First you are not looking for 12-6 spin, more like 1-7 if you are catching.
She is doing a lot of good things but I agree her footwork needs to be sorted. If 50% of your power comes from your legs that's where you need to look. She should keep her pivot foot straight on the push (never seen a sprinter turn his foot coming out of the blocks).
It looks like her arm is almost at 2:00 when the stride foot comes down; I would prefer that to be in the 11:00 - 1:00 range.
Arm speed actually slows down before release just an FYI.
She is doing 95 things right, you just need to sort the other 5.
She is doing a lot of good things but I agree her footwork needs to be sorted. If 50% of your power comes from your legs that's where you need to look. She should keep her pivot foot straight on the push (never seen a sprinter turn his foot coming out of the blocks).
It looks like her arm is almost at 2:00 when the stride foot comes down; I would prefer that to be in the 11:00 - 1:00 range.
Arm speed actually slows down before release just an FYI.
She is doing 95 things right, you just need to sort the other 5.
Thanks for all the advice guys. I did notice her push off foot turning on the rubber before she was striding out. That is something new and we will be working on that immediately. As far as the stride, I went out and measured it. She is 59 inches tall and her stride is 66 inches. She is very powerful (gymnist) for her size. However, I thought that you wanted the stride as long as possible to shorten that distance to the plate assuming that you can keep your timing correct. When she plants, she is at about 2 o'clock with the ball. I thought I read a long discussion on the forum about this issue and the consensus was 2 o'clock is the correct location to be at plant. Am I wrong on that? I'll try to go back and find that thread. She does seem to fall over left when she pitches and I cannot seem to come up with a drill to help her with that. Any suggestions? Thanks again for all the replies and kind words.
- Jul 17, 2012
- 1,091
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Very athletic young lady. At 12, I would agree that her velocity is on the lower side of average. It almost doesn't make sense when you watch the video, as she looks like she's got the "stuff" to throw a lot faster. I'm going to make an observation very cautiously here, as I am in no way shape or form an expert. Just sharing some stuff I learned....whether it be right or wrong. I'm sure others will correct me if I'm off the mark. One of the things my daughter was taught in the VERY beginning was that during the release phase of the arm circle, the upper arm needs to decelerate, therefore transferring the energy of motion to the lower arm, wrist/hand. In the very beginning, she was taught to whip her arm around as fast as she can, with her elbow leading a very slightly bent arm in the downswing until the elbow got to her side. At that point she was told to "WHIP" her lower arm by stopping her elbow there at her side(kidney area). Obviously you can't stop it dead, but trying to teaches them to "Whip" the ball as opposed to throw it.
Your DD is rotating her forearm quite nicely through release, but I think the lack of velocity comes from the lack of "Whip". Hopefully the more seasoned posters will either tell you I'm nuts, or validate my observations.
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I like her long stride. I think her timing is perfect and would compare it to many top pitchers. Her twist of the pivot foot is well within acceptable range.
I'd focus on pitching with a kid this good. Placement, spins and tactics. Fine tune her craft and confidence. Time to get ready to dominate batters!
Do some distance work to milk more speed, but otherwise wait for the body to catch up and for now: dial in and focus on the "next pitch."
Great work!
I'd focus on pitching with a kid this good. Placement, spins and tactics. Fine tune her craft and confidence. Time to get ready to dominate batters!
Do some distance work to milk more speed, but otherwise wait for the body to catch up and for now: dial in and focus on the "next pitch."
Great work!
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^^^All of what KenB said.
Take her size into account when you compare her to those mph tables. How often do you see a sub 5-foot 12yo throwing faster? It is too bad that the tables are age based. When you have a kid who is smaller than most pitchers her age, her velocity would be better compared to the age group that best matches her physical size, not the one that matches her age in years.
I don't see any amount of mechanical tinkering that will get her 5mph right away. I'd wager that she is very near her current mph ceiling. Yes, there is always room to improve mechanically, but she looks pretty darn good as is. She will gain many more mph as she gains inches, pounds, and maturity. That may be in 2 months or 3 years, but it WILL happen. Be realistic now and let her have fun.
Nice job!
VW
Take her size into account when you compare her to those mph tables. How often do you see a sub 5-foot 12yo throwing faster? It is too bad that the tables are age based. When you have a kid who is smaller than most pitchers her age, her velocity would be better compared to the age group that best matches her physical size, not the one that matches her age in years.
I don't see any amount of mechanical tinkering that will get her 5mph right away. I'd wager that she is very near her current mph ceiling. Yes, there is always room to improve mechanically, but she looks pretty darn good as is. She will gain many more mph as she gains inches, pounds, and maturity. That may be in 2 months or 3 years, but it WILL happen. Be realistic now and let her have fun.
Nice job!
VW
R
RayR
Guest
For comparison
all imho, Scarborough uses her back leg differently. To get to this rear leg position instead of just leaping and dragging her rear leg - she internally rotates the upper rear leg quickly which pulls on the muscles in her back that connect up to her shoulder/arm....this pull increases arm speed substantially on the down swing -
all imho, Scarborough uses her back leg differently. To get to this rear leg position instead of just leaping and dragging her rear leg - she internally rotates the upper rear leg quickly which pulls on the muscles in her back that connect up to her shoulder/arm....this pull increases arm speed substantially on the down swing -
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