Opposite or same direction?

[FiveFrameSwing]

I must admit that I never thought of applying a force that would pull the hands apart. Off the top of my head it makes no sense and I have never heard of it in golf either. But I will head to the basement after dinner with my heavy hitting bag, tee and net and swing away. I don't see what the purpose is but maybe after trying to swing that way it will become clear.

Jack Mankin ......

 

[BoardMember]

Yup FFS- that's a good look. It looks like the top hand is pulling back to the catcher (perpendicular to the length of the bat). But, IMO the hands are just pulling apart as the hands travel forward.

BTW - the side views get deceiving especially when they are elevated or from the rear.

I think the top hand IS pulling back to the catcher...........I teach my players to "split the handle in half" between the hands........Literally feels like pulling the handle apart with a horizontal break between the hands............

That's exactly how all my players are taught to turn the barrel.........Get the rear elbow up and "split the handle in half"............

The resulting pull back with the more dominant top hand turns the barrel AND slots the elbow........

Different hitter......Same objective........Get the rear elbow up and "split the handle in half".......

What ever works I guess........I've just never seen anyone turn the barrel any better then my players.......Even if the lower body wasn't optimal.........

 

[RayR]

BM - I find I get behind the swing more using this queue. I see it my students. I see their body supporting this goal.

If someone thinks it doesn't work - don't use it. I find it works for us...

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Agree that hand usage promotes "hitting behind the ball" ... which IMO is akin to "barrel to the ball" as opposed to "hands to the ball".

HI would use a frisbee drill to promote this feel of hand usage (as well as get the feel of what they considered the 'gear effect'). Turning of the frisbee was to be initiated behind the rear hip.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

 

[ArmWhip]

I want to be clear about this, MTS's diagram showed the force being applied towards both ends of the bat, as if trying to separate the hands. Mankin's diagram and BM's arrows show the force being applied to handle at right angles to the length of the bat. If you are trying to turn the bat right angle force I can understand. I am skeptical about whether this is correct, I never applied force to the bat in this way when I played. However a teaching technique does not have to accurately mimic correct action, it has to promote it and above all not encourage bad technique. I do want to point out that Mankins' diagram for average hitters is wrong, if he is talking about the launch position, who starts a swing that way?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

ArmWhip ... it can very much 'feel' like 'separating the hands'.

Let me try a brief description.

At swing initiation the bottom-hand immediately seeks flattening to the swing plane … that is a palm-down orientation ‘relative to the swing plane’ … where it will then primarily pull towards contact, serving much like a ‘hinge’ in terms of largely remaining palm-up relative to the swing plane.

The top hand will first pull in a manner so as to assist the bottom hand seeking flattening to the swing plane, and will do so in a manner that ‘supports the barrel’ (think in terms of controlling the barrel in terms of not dumping the barrel) … and from here the top hand will largely supply a force in the direction of top hand/forearm supination … very different function than the bottom hand … yet they work ‘together’ to create a torque like action.

It is not a two-piece action ... but an action that flows.

The hinge component of the bottom hand is a bit more involved … as one can think of the bottom hand continuing to contribute a torque contribution while it serves as a hinge.

p.s.
Not to be overlooked is that there is a weight transfer taking place while the body is 'uncoiling'.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

 

[RayR]

Arm - I think the disconnect is that the diagram is showing the net effect of the force I advocate supplying. Initially, whether you are aware or not - the force/pressure/etc should be directed in opposite directions up and down the bat. As you flatten the bottom hand to swing plane - you are using the bottom to pull towards the handle and the top hand should be resisting/pulling towards the barrel.

This action (coupled with the hands moving forward) creates a pivot point between the hands.

Or you can try it as the illustration shows and apply forces perp to the bat with both hands in opposite directions.

One method energizes the systems and tightens up the barrel path. The other is very handsy feeling and may dump the barrel and bind up the wrists...

Try this -

1) In super slow motion apply force up and down the bat as I describe as you flatten the bottom hand to swing plane (the hands move forward as this happens). Take this movement all the way to lag and then release to contact. The amount of force does not have to be extreme - just enough to keep everything in line.

2) In super slow motion apply force as Mankin's illustration advises (bottom hand towards the pitcher and top hand towards the catcher) and try to get to lag. Then release to contact.

Which one feels like an actual release and which one feels like a push? Which one seems to engage the lower body?

All IMHO...

I want to be clear about this, MTS's diagram showed the force being applied towards both ends of the bat, as if trying to separate the hands. Mankin's diagram and BM's arrows show the force being applied to handle at right angles to the length of the bat. If you are trying to turn the bat right angle force I can understand. I am skeptical about whether this is correct, I never applied force to the bat in this way when I played. However a teaching technique does not have to accurately mimic correct action, it has to promote it and above all not encourage bad technique. I do want to point out that Mankins' diagram for average hitters is wrong, if he is talking about the launch position, who starts a swing that way?