High school softball

[Shiloh]

Not talking about "mid-level" TB players. Talking about HS and the importance colleges place on it...specifically top Division I teams.

I'll spell it out a bit more, for those in the back:

*even* mid-level TB players can look like studs in HS. Because most HS ball is nowhere near as competitive as TB.
Way more high schools than TB teams...

obv top level TB players can look even more like standouts in HS ball, making all-region and all-state HS teams

why not mention these awards on your resume? what's the downside?

 

[Hillhouse]

If you subscribe to what I believe, that HS has almost no impact at all on college recruiting, then your DD has all the power in the relationship with HS, HS softball, and the coach. They need her, she doesn't need them. She isn't going to be recruited on what she does at HS. So a coach "strong arming" a player is ridiculous on many levels. Again, there's many reasons (all valid) to play HS softball. And there's a lot of valid reasons to not play it.

 

[JayW]

If you subscribe to what I believe, that HS has almost no impact at all on college recruiting, then your DD has all the power in the relationship with HS, HS softball, and the coach. They need her, she doesn't need them. She isn't going to be recruited on what she does at HS. So a coach "strong arming" a player is ridiculous on many levels. Again, there's many reasons (all valid) to play HS softball. And there's a lot of valid reasons to not play it.

that’s pretty much life - if you have special talent you’ve got a lot of options. It’s the other 99% that have to make accomodations.

 

[Westwind]

From what I've seen, it's not uncommon for a college team to have multiple players from the same TB team. I take that as the TB coach and college coach having built a connection/relationship, and it's been mutually beneficial.

Definitely agree!

I see the occasional college bios that will list travel teams. Even with the ones that don’t mention them, if you dig down into where college teams recruit from, you see duplication.

If I was a college coach, (which I certainly am not!), I’d be really careful of managing these Clique Builder Starter Kits from Super Team Platinum Elite Gold.

 

[Shiloh]

Definitely agree!

I see the occasional college bios that will list travel teams. Even with the ones that don’t mention them, if you dig down into where college teams recruit from, you see duplication.

If I was a college coach, (which I certainly am not!), I’d be really careful of managing these Clique Builder Starter Kits from Super Teams….

You have this backward.

Some schools (OU in particular) strongly encourage their recruits to join certain travel teams. As in, they pretty much require it (unless the travel distances are too prohibitive) from the time of verbal commitment until enrollment.

So it's not so much that the top college programs recruit from the same TB teams....it's more that the coaches at the top college programs handcraft certain top TB teams to get their recruits playing together as much and as early as possible, e.g. BB Stith.

 

[JayW]

Lakewood Ranch High School has a near 50% overlap with Tampa Mustangs. The coach is the same for both and the coach’s 2 daughters play for Florida.

 

[Westwind]

You have this backward.

Some schools (OU in particular) strongly encourage their recruits to join certain travel teams. As in, they pretty much require it (unless the travel distances are too prohibitive) from the time of verbal commitment until enrollment.

So it's not so much that the top college programs recruit from the same TB teams....it's more that the coaches at the top college programs handcraft certain top TB teams to get their recruits playing together as much and as early as possible, e.g. BB Stith.

Yep! I’m aware.

This applies to what percentage of players again though?

Of all the kids I know (or coached) that have played in college, I don’t know a single one this applies to.

I’m also a really long way from anywhere warm in the winter. I understand things are different there.

 

[Strike2]

I would say that winning a state tournament in those mentioned states would mean more than winning one in North Dakota, yes. But, the stats of saying "Sally Jones threw 19 perfect games in her High school career" doesn't hold a tremendous amount of weight because so many HS programs are absolutely horrible. Score keeping of HS programs is often given to the dad who brownnoses the head coach the most, and he controls what's a passed ball or Wild pitch. He controls hits vs. errors which ultimately determines ERA. Since there isn't an objective person doing the scoring in HS ball, the stats are often very skewed.

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote, or you are purposely ignoring it. The awards get mentioned on college bios because individual awards from Travel ball tournaments aren't given. PGF and Alliance, to the best of my knowledge, do not give out individual awards from their championship. So, without those, the only awards that can be mentioned for those who play HS ball are those awards. Those who don't play HS ball, or play for a bad team in HS, have very little they can list.

You seem to be taking what I'm saying rather personal. I'm only telling you what I did as someone who recruited for college(s) and now takes the phone calls from coaches for pitchers they are recruiting. When a kid contacted me about playing at the college, the first 2 questions I asked were: What TB program are you with and which National do you go to?

And I can tell you that the majority of my own students who went on to achieve the most success did not play HS ball. This includes students from all over, not one particular school district.

Not taking anything personal...just having a discussion. What you say about the "why" isn't logical..."PGF doesn't give out individual awards, so college player bios have to include HS awards, including detailed but skewed stats doctored by a scorekeeping dad" (paraphrasing)

What if a kid didn't play for a TB team that you thought was up to your standard, didn't go to the right "nationals", but did really well in a competitive HS program...they do exist despite your own apparent bias. Would you just shut them out?

PS...Little Sally is going to be playing somewhere, regardless of where her 19 perfect games happened.

 

[Strike2]

If you look at the OU bios, some have some pretty extensive TB accolades as well. They probably all have standard forms which they fill out for these bios which include both HS and TB stuff. The players fill out what think is going to put them in the best light.

You're right about that, but being OU, some of their players come from teams that won PGF championships. That's definitely something nice to mention. However, I don't believe all OU players even list a TB club. When you go down the pecking order of shools, the bios appear even more skewed toward HS. At least, that's what I've seen.

I'm not saying that HS performance matters more than TB, and it may not matter much at all to some college coaches. I am saying that I see a lot of blanket statements about HS ball here that not only don't pass the "makes sense" test, it doesn't line up with what I currently observe.

There are some very competitive high school softball programs where you live. I'll wager there are coaches at those high schools who give the hitting and pitching lessons to the players who grow up in the TB programs that feed right back to the high schools. If a university is surrounded by good HS programs, why wouldn't that coach develop relationships with those HS coaches? Do you think Patty Gasso or Kenny Gajewski never talk to HS coaches in Oklahoma about their players? At a minimum, if a coach has a good feel for the area HS programs, and someone gets recognized for their HS play, that coach is in a good position to evaluate what means.

 

[_MIA_]

There are some very competitive high school softball programs where you live.

Not in Norman

I am sure plenty of P5 schools have relationships with the local HS coaches for various reasons including what I mentioned previously regarding character questions.

My DD enjoyed playing MS this year despite the fact they stunk..Hopefully she continues to do so as she gets older.