High school softball

[Eric F]

Was a few days behind and I got this far before I had to respond…

Pattar is right, the college coaches don’t care. They might marginally like that a kid was on a hs championship team but it really isn’t what they are looking for.

The only reason *I* think hs stuff is in college bios is so there is something to put in bios.

College teams can’t look like they are schilling for certain travel teams. Totally bad form.

From what I've seen, it's not uncommon for a college team to have multiple players from the same TB team. I take that as the TB coach and college coach having built a connection/relationship, and it's been mutually beneficial.

 

[Hillhouse]

So you're saying that if a sophomore pitcher leads a HS team to a state / regional championship in a state such as Florida, Texas, or California, that's not a worthy thing to discuss with a college coach? Again, if the HS playing doesn't matter, that means the awards don't matter. If the awards don't matter, why mention them?

I would say that winning a state tournament in those mentioned states would mean more than winning one in North Dakota, yes. But, the stats of saying "Sally Jones threw 19 perfect games in her High school career" doesn't hold a tremendous amount of weight because so many HS programs are absolutely horrible. Score keeping of HS programs is often given to the dad who brownnoses the head coach the most, and he controls what's a passed ball or Wild pitch. He controls hits vs. errors which ultimately determines ERA. Since there isn't an objective person doing the scoring in HS ball, the stats are often very skewed.

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote, or you are purposely ignoring it. The awards get mentioned on college bios because individual awards from Travel ball tournaments aren't given. PGF and Alliance, to the best of my knowledge, do not give out individual awards from their championship. So, without those, the only awards that can be mentioned for those who play HS ball are those awards. Those who don't play HS ball, or play for a bad team in HS, have very little they can list.

You seem to be taking what I'm saying rather personal. I'm only telling you what I did as someone who recruited for college(s) and now takes the phone calls from coaches for pitchers they are recruiting. When a kid contacted me about playing at the college, the first 2 questions I asked were: What TB program are you with and which National do you go to?

And I can tell you that the majority of my own students who went on to achieve the most success did not play HS ball. This includes students from all over, not one particular school district.

 

[JayW]

I would say that winning a state tournament in those mentioned states would mean more than winning one in North Dakota, yes. But, the stats of saying "Sally Jones threw 19 perfect games in her High school career" doesn't hold a tremendous amount of weight because so many HS programs are absolutely horrible. Score keeping of HS programs is often given to the dad who brownnoses the head coach the most, and he controls what's a passed ball or Wild pitch. He controls hits vs. errors which ultimately determines ERA. Since there isn't an objective person doing the scoring in HS ball, the stats are often very skewed.

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote, or you are purposely ignoring it. The awards get mentioned on college bios because individual awards from Travel ball tournaments aren't given. PGF and Alliance, to the best of my knowledge, do not give out individual awards from their championship. So, without those, the only awards that can be mentioned for those who play HS ball are those awards. Those who don't play HS ball, or play for a bad team in HS, have very little they can list.

You seem to be taking what I'm saying rather personal. I'm only telling you what I did as someone who recruited for college(s) and now takes the phone calls from coaches for pitchers they are recruiting. When a kid contacted me about playing at the college, the first 2 questions I asked were: What TB program are you with and which National do you go to?

And I can tell you that the majority of my own students who went on to achieve the most success did not play HS ball. This includes students from all over, not one particular school district.

How are pitchers evaluated? Eye test? Radar gun? Rec from travel ball coach? Attendance at college camp? Subscription service ranking?

 

[Hillhouse]

I will say this. I once went to a HS game because I wanted to see a particular kid play. She was clearly the best player on her team..and she acted like she knew it (and not in a good way). Of course an AC at the school she now attends was there so obviously he didn't care (probably because he knew she wouldn't hold that distinction when she got to his team ).

Edit: I guess my statement also showed that Big Name U sent an AC to a random HS game (doesn't hurt that Big Name U
was 5 minutes from the HS game which was played in the Fall)

A couple things to remember in this discussion:

1. only 5 states in the nation play softball in the fall. Others are shoveling snow off the field before games in March trying and praying they can play. And since the majority of HS plays in the spring, many colleges cannot go to those games since they are in mid-season themselves.

2. there is a limit on how many times a school is allowed to go see a certain player. They aren't allowed to show up at every game. There are loopholes around that but, the rule stands.

3. even in the states that play softball in the fall, when colleges are allowed to recruit, most still go to TB tournaments instead of HS games because of budget reasons. Even then, the schools are only allowed to watch TB tournaments on Sat and Sun, Friday night they are not allowed to go watch games. But it's more economical for a school to go watch a tournament with 100's of potential players vs. going to a specific school to see 1 kid.

** there are exceptions to #3. Nebraska is one state that plays in the fall. I got to Nebraska a little more than 2 years ago and the #1 recruit in the nation became a pitcher named Jordyn Bahl. She was in such demand that an average HS tournament on a random weekend in September had coaches from Washington, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Minnesota, North Carolina and others trying to get her to look their way. (On her first official visit, which happened to be to Oklahoma, she signed on the spot cancelling her other visits). This was the exception the proves the rule. All of the schools that attended this tournament were either driving distance or the school has unlimited resources for recruiting.

 

[_MIA_]

A couple things to remember in this discussion:

1. only 5 states in the nation play softball in the fall. Others are shoveling snow off the field before games in March trying and praying they can play. And since the majority of HS plays in the spring, many colleges cannot go to those games since they are in mid-season themselves.

2. there is a limit on how many times a school is allowed to go see a certain player. They aren't allowed to show up at every game. There are loopholes around that but, the rule stands.

3. even in the states that play softball in the fall, when colleges are allowed to recruit, most still go to TB tournaments instead of HS games because of budget reasons. Even then, the schools are only allowed to watch TB tournaments on Sat and Sun, Friday night they are not allowed to go watch games. But it's more economical for a school to go watch a tournament with 100's of potential players vs. going to a specific school to see 1 kid.

** there are exceptions to #3. Nebraska is one state that plays in the fall. I got to Nebraska a little more than 2 years ago and the #1 recruit in the nation became a pitcher named Jordyn Bahl. She was in such demand that an average HS tournament on a random weekend in September had coaches from Washington, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Minnesota, North Carolina and others trying to get her to look their way. (On her first official visit, which happened to be to Oklahoma, she signed on the spot cancelling her other visits). This was the exception the proves the rule. All of the schools that attended this tournament were either driving distance or the school has unlimited resources for recruiting.

Why did you respond to my post? I am on the "TB is the main recruiting tool" train. I already mentioned your #1 in a previous post. Pretty much nobody here in OK likes having school ball in the Fall since the college coaches rarely go to HS games even if they are only playing Fall ball and there are showcases outside of the State which kids cannot attend because they are playing school ball.

My only point in that last post was to say sometimes you can get a glimpse of the character of a kid when he/she has to slum it with ordinary folk..(not saying that was the case here..maybe she was just having a tough day)

 

[Hillhouse]

How are pitchers evaluated? Eye test? Radar gun? Rec from travel ball coach? Attendance at college camp? Subscription service ranking?

All of the above. Although, I never put any stock in subscription services and videos that were sent via email. It doesn't take a genius to know that any video being sent is of the kid hitting a HR or a series of strikeouts. But, personally, I don't want to see that. I want to see how the kid reacts after giving up a HR... did she lose her cool? Or come back strong and throw her best pitches of the day? Everyone is going to give up HR's, but not everyone reacts the same. The Alabama story how when Murph (Pat Murphy) signed Montana Fouts is a cool one, and fits in with what I'm saying. He offered her the scholarship after a game that she apparently got lit up. She didn't have her stuff and the team lost badly. But she kept cheering in the dugout even after being taken out and didn't pout after the game. Apparently at that moment, after that game, is when he offered her.

College coaches have to have a crystal ball. For the most part, they aren't looking at how good someone is now, they are more concerned with how good they will be in 2 years when they come to the school. How much more potential for development is there?

I used to think college camps were a scam, and a way schools make money. and some are, for sure. but for a kid who's legit interested in that school, it's the loophole in the system that allows the coaches to interact with her. And allows her to interact with them. Remember, a PSA (prospective student athlete) isn't allowed to practice, play catch or do anything on visits except sightsee and check things out. So, if you want to see how that pitching coach (for example) is in lessons and work outs, you can get a good idea of this at camps. Yes, most coaches are on their best behavior at camps hoping to lure the PSA their way. But, the players on the team can also give the PSA the download on how the coach is on a day to day basis.

 

[Hillhouse]

Why did you respond to my post? I am on the "TB is the main recruiting tool" train. I already mentioned your #1 in a previous post. Pretty much nobody here in OK likes having school ball in the Fall since the college coaches rarely go to HS games even if they are only playing Fall ball and there are showcases outside of the State which kids cannot attend because they are playing school ball.

My only point in that last post was to say sometimes you can get a glimpse of the character of a kid when he/she has to slum it with ordinary folk..(not saying that was the case here..maybe she was just having a tough day)

If I'm not mistaken, OK is one state that not only has fastpitch softball (in fall) but still plays HS slow pitch softball in the spring. Is that still true?

 

[_MIA_]

If I'm not mistaken, OK is one state that not only has fastpitch softball (in fall) but still plays HS slow pitch softball in the spring. Is that still true?

Not sure if they are the only state, but yes they (unfortunately) still have slow pitch (which is an even more contentious topic here..)

 

[JayW]

I know some schools in central FL have slowpitch in the fall and strongly encourage (strongarm) their fastpitch players into playing slowpitch.

 

[_MIA_]

strongly encourage (strongarm) their fastpitch players into playing slowpitch.

Same thing here..Heck DD’s MS has it and the FP coach, who also coaches SP, implied that he expected the FP kids to play SP. Marcela was like heck no