Flabbergasted

[Nimrod]

But when they noticed it - they should have said something. Instead of "fixing" it before consulting with the other person doing the book.

Is it the scorekeeper's job to fix it? Who is in charge of keeping up with the innings? I would think it's the umpire, who is being paid and who is neutral. The scorekeeper is a consultant to be tapped when the umpire sees fit, right? Is it the scorekeeper's job to keep the umpire straight? What if the other team bats out of order? Or the umpire has the number of outs or ball/strikes wrong?

Not arguing, just curious. Good topic.

 

[nixxy311]

Is it the scorekeeper's job to fix it? Who is in charge of keeping up with the innings? I would think it's the umpire, who is being paid and who is neutral. The scorekeeper is a consultant to be tapped when the umpire sees fit, right? Is it the scorekeeper's job to keep the umpire straight? What if the other team bats out of order? Or the umpire has the number of outs or ball/strikes wrong?

Not arguing, just curious. Good topic.

I thought it was up to whoever is doing book to inform the ump if the other team bats out of order. I would have thought the ump would have the innings in the notebook they keep where they also write in subs/etc. At least when I'm doing home book in TB, the ump will come ask me for a score/inning check.

 

[Nimrod]

I thought it was up to whoever is doing book to inform the ump if the other team bats out of order. I would have thought the ump would have the innings in the notebook they keep where they also write in subs/etc. At least when I'm doing home book in TB, the ump will come ask me for a score/inning check.

Folks can correct me, but this is how I see it ...

Umpires come to you, but you don't go to the umpire. If they ask for help sorting out whether someone batted out of order, you help with that. But you don't point it out. (You might point it out to your coach if it benefits your team to protest, but you don't point it out to the umpire). The umpires run the game, and they can call on the official scorekeeper for help, but the scorekeeper has no duty to guide the umpire unless the umpire asks for help. The visiting team doesn't want the official scorekeeper to guide the umpires since the official scorekeeper is not neutral.

In this case, I think it was the umpire's duty to know what inning it was. Then, it was the opposing coach's duty to know the inning and protest. The opposing team wouldn't have any responsibility except perhaps one of sportsmanship, and then the question is whether it's OK to let the umpire erroneously call the game too early to your advantage. If it's a game we were going to win anyway, I'd probably say who cares, let's go home.

And if I were you, I'd still be flabbergasted. It was ridiculous no matter how you slice it.

btw, since you're in Georgia, you might be familiar with the Social Circle-Drew Charter basketball game last season. It was the state playoffs, and the scorekeeper shorted Social Circle a point. Game went into overtime, which Social Circle argued it would've won in regulation if not for the error. Drew Charter won that game and then the state title. This has happened multiple times in the Georgia basketball playoffs, potentially costing a team the game.

 

[nixxy311]

Folks can correct me, but this is how I see it ...

Umpires come to you, but you don't go to the umpire. If they ask for help sorting out whether someone batted out of order, you help with that. But you don't point it out. (You might point it out to your coach if it benefits your team to protest, but you don't point it out to the umpire). The umpires run the game, and they can call on the official scorekeeper for help, but the scorekeeper has no duty to guide the umpire unless the umpire asks for help. The visiting team doesn't want the official scorekeeper to guide the umpires since the official scorekeeper is not neutral.

In this case, I think it was the umpire's duty to know what inning it was. Then, it was the opposing coach's duty to know the inning and protest. The opposing team wouldn't have any responsibility except perhaps one of sportsmanship, and then the question is whether it's OK to let the umpire erroneously call the game too early to your advantage. If it's a game we were going to win anyway, I'd probably say who cares, let's go home.

And if I were you, I'd still be flabbergasted. It was ridiculous no matter how you slice it.

btw, since you're in Georgia, you might be familiar with the Social Circle-Drew Charter basketball game last season. It was the state playoffs, and the scorekeeper shorted Social Circle a point. Game went into overtime, which Social Circle argued it would've won in regulation if not for the error. Drew Charter won that game and then the state title. This has happened multiple times in the Georgia basketball playoffs, potentially costing a team the game.

Yep I heard about that. And it wasn't reviewable. Did stink for that team.
I'm definitely not perfect but I do try to keep a very accurate book. But it's much easier in softball. I've done the book at a basketball game and I can see messing that up very easy!

A few years back in TB - I was keeping book and a girl on the other team struck out. I thought she had walked back to the dugout but apparently she came up to bat again and got a hit. We would have had two outs if she had struck out like she actually did and we could have ended that inning quickly after that but didn't. Turns out the other team had "missed" a strike. And my book was accurate - everyone on our team knew our pitcher had struck her out - the ump called it but then the same girl was still batting. I don't expect it to happen so I don't always look for it - so I didn't even realize it was the same batter. Had I noticed it right then I'd probably been able to stop it after it happened. I guess you live and learn. Though I still don't always check jerseys - I like to think people are honest like that or someone is keeping track.

I do however make sure our team is always batting the right person.

 

[uncdrew]

I do GameChanger a lot. Here's what I've noticed:

1. Umpires often ask me what inning it is. It's my understanding that they don't track that officially, and that's fine with me. I suppose a clicker could be made (or is made) to track that. But I've always felt it was the scorekeeper's job. Along with the score.

2. Our team does GameChanger mostly for fans at home, secondarily for coaches. So I certainly get the plays, players, outs, innings correct. But sometimes I lose track of the count. If I have 1-1 and then the next pitch they strike out swinging, I add the strike I missed and then the strike out swinging. Same end result, perhaps not exactly how it went down.

3. When not doing GameChanger, I lose track of the score and the inning and the count and the outs quite easily. I probably wouldn't have noticed that the game ended an inning early.

4. There just aren't scoreboards in most of the games we play. It sucks.

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

1. Umpires often ask me what inning it is. It's my understanding that they don't track that officially, and that's fine with me. I suppose a clicker could be made (or is made) to track that.

I'm guessing you're mostly involved in timed games, where, who cares what inning it is?

That said, that's umps being lazy (but then again, timed game, unless you've flown through and it "feels" close to 7, who cares?).

Myself, timed or not, I track everything, innings, score, conferences, subs. I almost never need it, but when/if something happens, and you have to write your report, you need it.

Oh, and indicators generally do have a wheel for innings.

 

[MightyMO]

Question for the umpires on here: Should the field ump be checking score every half inning with the home (official) scorekeeper? I see this pretty consistently in travel ball but I haven't really seen it much in school ball. Doing that would pretty much ensure that the umpire knew what inning it was.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Question for the umpires on here: Should the field ump be checking score every half inning with the home (official) scorekeeper? I see this pretty consistently in travel ball but I haven't really seen it much in school ball. Doing that would pretty much ensure that the umpire knew what inning it was.

Many summer/travel ball tournaments require the umpires to turn in a score card for the tournament folks. What is on it can vary. Some places just want a final score. Some want inning by inning. Some (baseball) want to track innings pitched for each pitcher. Some even want coaches signatures after the game to verify the score. Typically the base umpire will handle that card just to help spread the duties out.

I've been trying to develop this as a habit during school ball. Until I get organized and print off cards for me to use though, I am hit or miss with it. If I have a lineup card with room, sometimes I will keep a running scoreboard for myself. I wish I had done it today, because I was all kinds of discombobulated. Rough day at school, so I was already out of mindset. The first inning the visitors rocked the pitcher for 9 runs. After that, every time they would score, the home team would score. I swear we played 20 innings. (We played 6.) But that long first half inning followed by fairly good competition can throw you off.

Indicators come in both 3-wheel and 4-wheel configurations. The fourth wheel is innings.

 

[CoachJD]

Question for the umpires on here: Should the field ump be checking score every half inning with the home (official) scorekeeper? I see this pretty consistently in travel ball but I haven't really seen it much in school ball. Doing that would pretty much ensure that the umpire knew what inning it was.

It's good practice to confirm the opposing team has the same score once per inning (especially if there's no scoreboard). I don't know that I've ever had a major issue, but there have been moments where someone forgot to mark a runner as scoring or added up the wrong score or something. I've done it. Opponents have done it. And it's way easier to figure out the issue when you only have one inning to look at instead of three or four.

 

[Gags]

Just starting 14U, and probably have played only 10-15 games with an actual scoreboard, while nearly every HS game I've seen will have a working scoreboard.

To the OP - since you've been using GC for so long, yes, it's obvious that you can't just skip an inning. I've done only a few games in GC, and to a non-expert, as intuitive as a lot of it is - if you miss a pitch, or get behind a pitch or two, you better hope someone has a paper book ready to help you catch up.

Just like there's the fear of not agreeing with what an umpire has - it's human nature to just want to correct a mistake they believe they may have made earlier, and move on. "Oh crap - the innings wrong - hey, look, here's that 'Easy' button that says "end inning" - there, all better!".

All that said - if you know the other scorekeeper had the same level of familiarity with GC as yourself, then yes - it's perfectly OK to call "shenanigan's". Otherwise, probably just has to go into the "lesson's learned" file.