another 10U swing

[Chris O'Leary]

She appears to be "sitting" as she swings top first.

That's because that is how she adjusts up and down in the strike zone.

In all likelihood she's been taught to stay upright when she swings, not drop her back shoulder, or something like that.

This is the typical result.

If she would lead with her hips (fire the rear hip towards the pitch) that will have such an effect on her top half that it is a waste of time until then to make adjustments to her arms, shoulders, or hands.

Teaching her to lead with her hips will improve her power, but it won't do anything to improve how she adjusts.

If all you fix is how she leads with her hips, you will end up with a hitter who can kill balls middle middle but who will whiff on anything that isn't middle middle.

I prefer to fix adjustability problem first because that requires posture improvements that will produce big carry-overs to power and set the stage for further improvements to the lower body.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

She appears to be "sitting" as she swings top first. She is not leading with the hips. If she would lead with her hips (fire the rear hip towards the pitch) that will have such an effect on her top half that it is a waste of time until then to make adjustments to her arms, shoulders, or hands.

SBPH, you are correct … poor rear hip usage is associated with this girl's swing issue. Take note of the girl’s gate-like swing mechanic and lack of establishing connection.

If this girl is taught to lead with her hips via a lateral tilt process, then her establishment of connection will be promoted. It’s a win-win solution. Her ability to hit with power will be improved, … and it will also increase her ability to adjust, since it will lead to an improvement in creating dynamic hip/shoulder spatial separation.

 

[RichK]

yet the palm of her top hand, if it were to be opened, changes direction. the palm goes from being directed towards the pitcher to being angled towards the ceiling. Typically people refrain from directing the palm of their top hand towards the ceiling until contact.

So FFS, Wellphyt consistently preaches "getting hands flat" early, a cue I've started to really like, which I assume involves the top hand "pointing to the ceiling."

What is the difference between that (good) and "vroom, vroom" with top hand (bad)?

If I'm understanding correctly, the difference would be done well the top-hand forearm externally rotates (and follows the shoulder, which follows the hips, while also getting a running start/cocking) while moving to flat (good) versus the top hand just immediately getting flat (and the fingers -- if palm opened up -- pointing back to the catcher) which ends up trapping/dumping/dragging the barrel (bad).

Is that right?

 

[Hoover's Dad]

FiveFrame, This is not intended to be smart or trying to stir the pot, but where did you play your college ball, MLB or coach at a extremely high level at?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

So FFS, Wellphyt consistently preaches "getting hands flat" early, a cue I've started to really like, which I assume involves the top hand "pointing to the ceiling."

What is the difference between that (good) and "vroom, vroom" with top hand (bad)?

If I'm understanding correctly, the difference would be done well the top-hand forearm externally rotates (and follows the shoulder, which follows the hips, while also getting a running start/cocking) while moving to flat (good) versus the top hand just immediately getting flat (and the fingers -- if palm opened up -- pointing back to the catcher) which ends up trapping/dumping/dragging the barrel (bad).

Is that right?

How one goes about getting the top hand flat is the difference.

One does not accomplish this goal with the "vrooom, vrooom motorcycle throttle action" ... which is a ticket to 'bat drag'. One instead accomplishes this by applying a force with the top hand in the direction of supination ... with an objective of passing through the "RVP connection point position" with a pinched rear forearm-to-bicep (Mankin Power-Vee).

The clip below gives you an example of what top hand/forearm "supination" looks like in isolation.

Believe it or not ... but this action above, along with the hips rotating 90 degrees, will be enough to rotate the barrel 180-degrees to contact. This is why many state that the swing is "hips & hands".

 

[Wellphyt]

**Updated Swing on page 4**

Compare how she's getting the bat started in these swings to what she's doing now. In these clips she gets her barrel moving without dropping her hands. Some of us refer to this as "turning the barrel with the hands". We may also say that she has created a hand pivot point because she is moving the barrel without dropping her hands or moving them forward towards the pitcher. She is getting a head start with the barrel. Notice how she times the flattening of the barrel move with her stride. She is reading the pitch while her barrel is flattening behind her. When she makes the decision to swing, her barrel is already in motion and flattening into the swing plane. Where did this move go? What drills did she do to lose this move?

Now she is dropping her hands down towards her side and then swinging. It's what I refer to as slot-then-swing. She can really hit the ball hard doing what she's doing now, but it's not very efficient and it's really hard to sqaure the ball up consistently.

I like her old swing. A little bit better sync, and a little bit less flattening, and her hips would have been leading naturally. When you get the sequence correct, and get the bat started correctly, the hips are a no teach, IMO. I felt like she was close before, but my comments got shot down. Oh well.

 

[lhowser]

I've got to agree with Wellphyt that the second swing isn't better than the first. that back elbow is a killer. All of that movement of the arm slotting, tucking in, and tucking under and the barrel isn't going anywhere. A fairly fast 10U pitcher is throwing it right by her. I should know...take a look at these clips from my new group of 10U's at our first scrimmage together against a pretty quick pitcher...ouch....
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[Chris O'Leary]

Compare how she's getting the bat started in these swings to what she's doing now.

This is the same swing.

She doesn't drop her hands because the tee is high and the pitch is high.

I said the same thing 10 months ago.

First, that really isn't a great swing in that clip.

Second, the only reason why her hands stay up is because the pitch is up. If the pitch was down, she would adjust by dropping her hands (as she does in other clips).

 

[Wellphyt]

This is the same swing.

She doesn't drop her hands because the tee is high and the pitch is high.

I said the same thing 10 months ago.

Like I said, my initial comments got shot down. I could get into detail as to why the pitch height isn't causing her to start the bat the way she does in the original post, but why bother. I'll just say that I've been coaching girls fast ptich for 14 years, including pitching windmill style batting practice for six years. I've seen every swing imaginable. I've found three basic ways that the girls start their swing. I"m pretty confident I know what I'm looking at in this instance.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Here's some video from Friday of my latest hitting session with my younger son...

While this isn't a perfect swing -- for instance, he fans open his front foot and I see some signs of a push and maybe a death grip -- by locking down his upper body he's forced to get his power from a different place than he's used to. That makes his swing take a bit longer to start, but that will improve as he gets used to this new movement pattern.

P.S. I know his lower body isn't right, but I'm not going to worry about that until his upper body is consistently better. As it is, he's dragging on maybe 50% of his swings versus 90% of his swings a few weeks ago. One problem that naive instructors have is that they try to work on too many things at once and end up fixing one thing and breaking something else. I believe in fixing things in sequence.

P.P.S. I haven't started working with his sister yet because she's just a 3rd grader and is still just playing minimally competitive rec ball.

P.P.P.S. I haven't talked to him about his grip at all, but I just realized that he's doing the Ted Williams grip.