Why do some pay all this $$$ for private lessons???

[GOINGDEEP]

This is really an interesting topic. I give lessons, for which people pay me. They gladly pay because I bring things to their kids that they can't. At the same time, I taught all my kids how to hit, and taught my youngest daughter how to pitch. Before I knew that, though, I took her to a pitching coach and gladly paid him to help her achieve her desire to become a pitcher.

Paying for lessons is just like paying for any other outside service. Some people see value, some don't. If I need to change an electrical outlet, I go out and buy one, shut off the power, and change it. When I wanted my basement finished I did most of the work myself. But I had an electrician wire it because I wanted things done that I didn't feel comfortable doing. At the same time, I would never put up an addition to my house, whereas my neighbor wouldn't think of hiring out the job when he could do it himself. It's all about what you're comfortable doing and what you think you need someone more qualified to do.

I'm sure it depends on your experience with it too. If GOINGDEEP took his daughter for lessons and found a coach who actually helped her get better than he thought he could he'd probably be glad to pay for it.

Well Ken I had a tuff time getting into softball. My brother and I both D1 pitchers ( baseball ) My DD is the only lefty in the whole family. So not only did I have to learn and teach the windmill but I had to deal with the problem of teaching it all to a lefty. Trust me I beat my head against a wall a few times. But we worked and worked and worked. Now we can go to just about any ballpark within a few hours and people know her as " that big left handed pitcher". I guess a good lefty in softball stands out just like in baseball. They are tuff to hit off of. Most of them have a nasty natural movement.

I did try a few diff pitching coaches. Never like any of them. They wanted all their students to pitch the same way. All the greats have their own unique style, so that let me know real quick these instructors didn't have a clue. And maybe we just don't have good instructors. IDK? With her natural movement we use alot of 'hybrid' pitches. When we get cranked up in ball I will try to upload some video.

 

[DonnieS]

Well I did try a few diff pitching coaches. Never like any of them. They wanted all their students to pitch the same way. All the greats have their own unique style, so that let me know real quick these instructors didn't have a clue. And maybe we just don't have good instructors. IDK? With her natural movement we use alot of 'hybrid' pitches. When we get cranked up in ball I will try to upload some video.

We went through 6 before we found the one we stayed with. Your experience was the same as mine. The pitching instructors knew how to pitch and wanted to take and make her the same as them, even though they were tall, she was short, they were men (some of them) and she is not, so on and so on - sounds like you heard the same tune.

 

[mudbug]

He did agree that in most parts of the country HS sucks. That being coaches and players. He said most HS coaches could care less about what happens to a player after their SR year and the other coaches that do care have no idea how or the opportunity to help their players get exposure. Next he said we are blessed, we have two D1 schools right here in our backyard not to mention the D2-3 and Community colleges very close. He pointed out he has been coaching the same HS for over 20 years, and helped close to 100 kids go play at the next level. Of coarse not all were D1, but he said each situation and girl is diff. Depends on what 'study' she might want to get into also.

I think hes snowing you a bit if he said that. Thats about the rate the very good top travel teams in the country send girls to college ball. Every girl on an 18Gold team may get scholarship offers, etc, but they dont all take them. The education is more important than playing ball for some two bit little school just to play D2 or D3 ball. I doubt a single HS coach has had anywhere near that many girls go to college ball, unless he is from the Los Angeles, California area, or also coaches a very good travel team. In any case, I doubt he had much of an impact on any girls either. Undoubtedbly they were travel ball players anyway. By the time girls GET to HS they are already very good players. The impact a HS coach can have in 3 months or so , playing 25 games with limited practice time, against weaker competition , etc pales in comparison to year-round practices, private instruction, and 100+ game seasons against higher level competition.

Go online and look at the # of college signings on some top National team websites. OC batbusters, Shamrocks, Birmingham Vipers, or pick any other you want. 5 to 7 per year is about average for the really good travel teams. And they recruit from a 50-150 mile radius! Much larger than any HS zone. Again, many girls will recieve offers, but decline to play D2 or D3 or even D1 if it is a small schoo or is not someplace they want to go to study.

Also interesting to pick the university of your choice, look at their roster and player bios. If they list bio's, you wont find many without their travel ball club listed. Why did UF do so well last yr? Cause half their team came from OC Batbusters and the other half from the Gold Coast Hurricanes. Two top travel ball programs.

 

[Coach Al]

It's all about what you're comfortable doing and what you think you need someone more qualified to do.


You said it all there Ken!

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I think hes snowing you a bit if he said that. Thats about the rate the very good top travel teams in the country send girls to college ball. Every girl on an 18Gold team may get scholarship offers, etc, but they dont all take them. The education is more important than playing ball for some two bit little school just to play D2 or D3 ball. I doubt a single HS coach has had anywhere near that many girls go to college ball, unless he is from the Los Angeles, California area, or also coaches a very good travel team. In any case, I doubt he had much of an impact on any girls either. Undoubtedbly they were travel ball players anyway. By the time girls GET to HS they are already very good players. The impact a HS coach can have in 3 months or so , playing 25 games with limited practice time, against weaker competition , etc pales in comparison to year-round practices, private instruction, and 100+ game seasons against higher level competition.

Go online and look at the # of college signings on some top National team websites. OC batbusters, Shamrocks, Birmingham Vipers, or pick any other you want. 5 to 7 per year is about average for the really good travel teams. And they recruit from a 50-150 mile radius! Much larger than any HS zone. Again, many girls will recieve offers, but decline to play D2 or D3 or even D1 if it is a small schoo or is not someplace they want to go to study.

Also interesting to pick the university of your choice, look at their roster and player bios. If they list bio's, you wont find many without their travel ball club listed. Why did UF do so well last yr? Cause half their team came from OC Batbusters and the other half from the Gold Coast Hurricanes. Two top travel ball programs.

First of all I scouted him, he didn't scout us. Told you before I looked for years to find the best school program. And every time I asked, this guy's name came up. I checked on how many he has helped move on to college. So why are you hating on this guy? Does it make you feel small that out there somewhere a coach actually cares about his players? You should be praising him because that's what ALL coaches should be doing. How many have you helped get to college?

Rounding his coaching years to 25, then round his 'about 100' kids to college to 80= 3 kids a year. That doesn't sound like a big number to me. Not from this area anyway.

You said "education is more important that playing for a two bit school", well what the heck? If he can help these kids get a FREE education off of their sports more power to him. Why would you knock this guy around for helping them get a 50-100k education. Most parents would kiss this guy's feet. Some of these kids may be glad to go to a lesser school just because their family may not have been able to afford it without the scholarship. So get off your high horse, cause I seriously doubt I will see your DD playing at Arizona, Texas Am, UF.

Now I see why your school ball sucks. You say "The impact a HS coach can have in 3 months or so , playing 25 games with limited practice time, against weaker competition , etc pales in comparison to year-round practices"..................... Try more like 6 months, and 50 regular season games ( even more during playoffs ). Limited practice? Try 3 hours 5 days a week. ( I bet your little travel team doesn't do that much practice a week ) Between HS and travel we are playing over 130 games a year.

It is just natural in this state. All the best "A" and gold players............also play HS ball. Maybe they care about representing their school and hometown, it's called pride. Once school is over we all scatter to our travel teams. And yes, all diff levels. Some may play "B" some "A" some 'gold'.

I think you and some on here have a diff agenda than me on college. Sure I want my DD to play in college ( and hopefully for free ) but I don't want her to play 1000 miles away. Do you? I want to be able to watch as many games as I can. I want to be in the stands cheering for my kid. If she wants to go to a big school far away because of a particular study that's another story. But I do not drill in her head that I will be ashamed if she doesn't get into the 'big 10' schools. But I feel like some of you might do that to yours.

 

[FJRGerry]

A big AMEN to you GOINGDEEP! Well said and I agree with you 100%!

Back to the original question: I believe if parents educate themselves about the sport; learning from books, DVDs, questioning experienced players, former players, coaches, etc... then they can teach their children the sport up to a medium (or even high) level of capability. Of course this takes a large time commitment, but it's a great way to get to know your child as she matures. Of course not every parent is sports minded, or has the time, so in those cases professional coaching is a valuable supplement to the coaching received from her travel coaches.

In my case learning (or relearning) soccer, basketball, baseball & softball skills over the last ten years has been great fun - it gets me to exercise, PLAY with my kids, as well as be involved in their lives as a coach, building life time memories. I'll spend money for group camps & lessons, but I have yet to spend a dollar on private lessons and my daughter hits & pitches as well as anyone she plays with.

 

[Cannonball]

Interesting. Personally, I want my daughter to go to a pitching coach but economically, that is not possible. She started with a local guy known for setting up a very good base and then most of his students progress on. He charged 90 dollars for 12 lessons in groups of 3. Very nice man and my daughter stayed with him for several years. Then, we made a change for several reasons. We then went to watch several give lessons. We settled on a lady who was once a college coach and of whom my daughter really liked. However, we just can't pay that price:

1) 12- 1/2 Hour Lesson Package - $396
2) 16-Lesson Package - $496
3) A Year Membership - $100/month (gives you access to 1 lesson per week for a year)

So, for over a year, I've been it for my daughter. I know it hurts her. One can't get blood out of a turnip and so, I just don't have the money. We are paying her team fees, her college camp fees, hotels, gas, ... Heck, we've played a tournament already this year and are playing one in two weeks in Indianapolis. BB is going to another college camp on Feb. 7. Well you all understand all of this. I might also say that if I could get my daughter to Bill Hillhouse, Dana, Scott Sarginson, Steve Englishbey, BoardMember, ... I know it'd be well worth it. Now, we are taking the chance that she is athletic enough for someone to take a chance on her. Oh, Howard is going to be some 3 hours from us but again, with more college camps coming up where she might generate interest, we just can't do it. I openly admit that when it comes to fastpitch pitching, I'm ignorant.

As an FYI, many of us who teach realize that our state governments are experiencing "short falls" and so our high schools are having to make drastic cuts. I might lose one coaching position as it could be eliminated. We will lose numerous teachers. So for the Butler family, its batton down the hatches.

Per hitting, I'd have to say that I have a very select few that I'd let work with my child. As I often tell people, she hasn't grown up hitting with traditional cues. What I recommend, and what I have done, is develop a few friends who's opinions you really respect and share video with them. Some posters on this site have litterally followed my child since she was 9 years old. She's 16 now.

I'm going to add one more thing to this discussion. Some throw money at the problem and expect a coach to be a "fix all." I'd suggest Chicken Salad - Chicken S###. You just can't make some players in to pitchers. I"m not convinced mine is despite the fact that she has been a two year varsity starter and in that time has only lost 4 games total. I am convinced she can hit. Being honest about your kids ability will make both of you happier in the end.

 

[jofus13]

Hmmm...I'd like to add a few points, if anyone cares what a dum ole hillbilly thinks

Goingdeep, it sounds like you are luckier than most with your high school coach, because, at least in my personal observations, a lot of them don't put much effort into it. It doesn't help that in WV, education employees (teachers, bus drivers, etc.) get the job over non-employees, period, and once they have the job, they just about have to break a law to lose it (or lose their teaching job). I'm sure there are coaches around here that try to be "agents" for their better players and contact colleges for them, but I'm also sure there aren't very many of them.

Heck, just the fact that you can pick what high school she goes to is different from us, here in WV you have to go to the school that's in the district you live in, unless you go to a private school, and the only private school close by has about 60 kids total from 7th to 12th grade, so obviously their softball/volleyball isn't that great. If you move, you can change schools, but if you change schools without moving to that district, you have to sit out of all extra-curricular activities for 365 days.

As for the private instruction, there aren't many options here either. We're lucky that my DD's pitching coach is 5 minutes from our house, and a 90 minute lesson is $45, and he's put some pitchers in college, and has published a few videos on different pitches....actually, he's doing a new one this coming summer on change-ups, and my DD is going to be one of the girls doing the demonstrations (he always uses his students, obviously), so we were honored when he asked her to do that.

I'll probably be guilty of "advertising" the video here when it comes out, I'll apologize in advance

But, we had an opportunity to join a travel team with good ties to some good pitching resources, and we jumped on it, and in large part because of the potential for more (and maybe different/second opinion types of ) pitching instruction. Right now, she's getting instructions from both guys, which confused her some at first, until she figured out that both are telling her pretty much the same things, just in different ways/cues/etc.

I also have a 3 year old DD, and IF she loves to play softball like my older DD, and IF she wants to learn to pitch, then at that point, between what I have learned and what my older DD has learned (she is already helping a couple younger girls learn to pitch), then I probably won't take her to a paid instructor, at least not early on....

 

[GOINGDEEP]

How cool. That will be so great to be on a pitching DVD. Be sure to let us all know the name and when it comes out. I love to watch good pitching. Sounds like you have found a great pitching coach at a great price. As long as your DD and you are happy........that's all that matters.

 

[jofus13]

Well, it's not like his DVD's are the best selling DVD's on the market or anything, but I guess he must sell at least a few of them, or he wouldn't still be putting them out. He's done videos on drop, on the rise, and on curve/screw, all "for younger pitchers", and his first video was on the triple-pitch. He's doing the changeup DVD this summer, and also one on basic mechanics for beginning pitchers, or something similar.

If it just gets her to work harder on her changeups (she's scripted to demonstrate 2 different pitches in the video) between now and August, I'll be happy

I did my own travel team last year, with all local girls (we're in a smaller area, population wise), and we weren't that good, but we had deeper pitching than any other teams in our tournaments...7 girls on our team go to him for pitching. Our first tournament, I pitched 3 girls a game, 2 innings a girl, for the first 2 games, for 6 total pitchers, and the other coach in our second game (who watched us play our first game also) asked me "how many pitchers do you have, anyway?", and I said "well, we have a couple more that can pitch in emergiencies"

It's too bad we couldn't hit as well as we pitched....

We handled the platooning fairly well, without anyone getting too upset for lack of pitching time, but it wasn't easy. Well, anyone except my wife, since my DD usually got the least innings of our "better" pitchers, because I didn't want to appear to be pitching her more than anyone else because she was my kid....which is another reason I wanted to find her a new (and better) team, to take the "dad" factor out of the equation....