Understanding IR

[stickpile39]

I have read dozens of threads on this board trying to gain a full understanding of IR. Huge thanks to Boardmember for such a great couple of threads. Still have some questions.

I am trying to learn this right along with my DD's 11 and 9. The biggest issue I have is that none of the instructors in my area are teaching this way, so I guess it is up to me

I will say that overall this IR is a much more natural motion than the hellow elbow, but some of it does not come naturally for me (or them) But perhaps I am explaining it incorrectly or not doing it properly.

1: At what point do we externally rotate the softball during the motion? 11 or 10 Oclock? And do we externally rotate at as far as possible? Does it occur gradually? This doesn't seem quite natural.

2: The elbow needs to lead coming down the arm circle correct? And this needs to be a loose feel, right? This also doesn't feel quite natural. I think it is easier to accomplish in slow motion than it is soft toss or full delivery. Maybe this just comes with practice. Best cues for this? OR drills on how to accomplish? Should the elbow actually be touching the back or side before it straightens? And does the wrist stay externally rotated all the way down to just before the release at 7 Oclockish?

3: At release do we consciously internally rotate, or should this be a natural result. At the begginer level, Are we trying to apply some type of spin, or just release naturally. I see the wrist dangling after some of the deliveries from Ueno etc.

Thank you for your help!

Sitck

 

[sluggers]

I think you are getting a little too hung up on specifics. One danger when you teach pitching is that the child is going to start going through a laundry list of "things to do" instead of just letting the pitch flow.

There is a thread entitled, "IR in the classroom." here is the link: http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/10321-i-r-classroom.html

It has an explanation as to how to teach IR.

The best way, IMHO, to get a feel for IR is is to get a pitching wedge--borrow one if you need. Put your right hand *only* on the club with your thumb on top the shaft and pointing blade. Relax your arm, and take 50% swings with only your right hand. A 50% swing is one where you have a nice bend in the elbow, and the upper arm is parallel with the ground. Swing the club 10 or 15 times, keeping your arm and wrist relaxed. If your arm stays relaxed, you'll notice that the club head is rotating from open at the beginning to closed at the finish. So, your wrist is also rotating from open at the beginning to closed at the end. That is IR.

Pretty simple, really.

 

[stickpile39]

thanks for the reply sluggers. I have read the I/R in the Classroom and tried the drills. This is where my questions are coming from. Your point is taken about developing a "things to do " list. I am not passing that on to my daughters, but regarding the specifics, I am just trying to understand how to teach this properly myself. I will definitely try the pitching wedge thing. I appreciate that. Hoping someone can address my questions.

 

[inde53546]

Hal and B. Member I think have both suggeted using a mini football. Inorder to throw a spiral with a football underhand you have to have your palm facing third base. Your hand/wrist will naturally rotate inward

 

[T.J.]

The best way, IMHO, to get a feel for IR is is to get a pitching wedge--borrow one if you need. Put your right hand *only* on the club with your thumb on top the shaft and pointing blade. Relax your arm, and take 50% swings with only your right hand. A 50% swing is one where you have a nice bend in the elbow, and the upper arm is parallel with the ground. Swing the club 10 or 15 times, keeping your arm and wrist relaxed. If your arm stays relaxed, you'll notice that the club head is rotating from open at the beginning to closed at the finish. So, your wrist is also rotating from open at the beginning to closed at the end. That is IR.

Pretty simple, really.

That's a great explanation, understanding of how it should "feel" and visual of that part of the motion, thanks.

 

[BoardMember]

1: At what point do we externally rotate the softball during the motion? 11 or 10 Oclock? And do we externally rotate at as far as possible? Does it occur gradually? This doesn't seem quite natural.

Simple answer is never. Not sure where you got the idea that you purposely externally rotate anything. The proper motion up the front half of the circle (upward motion) should put the ball facing the catcher (or close) at 12:00. You lead with the elbow on the way down the backside, IE pulling the ball downward vs. pushing it downward. Because of this proper set up/form during the first 2/3rd's of the circle, the ball/palm/wrist/forearm will be facing the sky (or somewhere between the sky and 3rd base) by 9:00. At this point, it is externally rotated by 9:00.......

The show it and throw it drill puts the ball facing the catcher at 12:00, and draws/pulls the ball downward. As the circle progresses downward, because of the starting position at the top facing the catcher, the position at 9:00 (1/2 way down the backside) is considered EXternally rotated compared to the finish which is INternally rotated......

So you don't externally rotate anything. You put things into a position that is EXternally rotated by 9:00..........

2: The elbow needs to lead coming down the arm circle correct? And this needs to be a loose feel, right? This also doesn't feel quite natural. I think it is easier to accomplish in slow motion than it is soft toss or full delivery. Maybe this just comes with practice. Best cues for this? OR drills on how to accomplish? Should the elbow actually be touching the back or side before it straightens? And does the wrist stay externally rotated all the way down to just before the release at 7 Oclockish?

All the drills in the I/R in the classroom thread are designed to teach this natural motion........

3: At release do we consciously internally rotate, or should this be a natural result.

The best way to answer this is that we ALLOW the arm to internally rotate and THROW THE BALL forward toward the target............Understand that IF the ball is facing backwards, or even slightly sideways just BEFORE release, the ONLY WAY to throw it forward is to ALLOW the bicep/forearm/wrist to turn forward toward the target......The IDEAL release mechanics would allow it to turn THROUGH the motion instead of stopping rotation when it faces the target..........

At the begginer level, Are we trying to apply some type of spin, or just release naturally. I see the wrist dangling after some of the deliveries from Ueno etc.

For a beginner, learning to create slightly inward spin toward the batter insures that ball is released BEFORE the hand turns the ball over......(TUMBLES).......For a RH'r, the ball should spin slightly to the right as it travels forward toward the target.........FOR BEGINNERS.........

Thank you for your help!

Sitck

Your welcome!

 

[stickpile39]

Wow great posting Boardmember! I think I got it!

 

[jryan15]

Understand that IF the ball is facing backwards, or even slightly sideways just BEFORE release, the ONLY WAY to throw it forward is to ALLOW the bicep/forearm/wrist to turn forward toward the target......

For what it's worth, my DD got into a habit of staying inside the ball and releasing before IR happened. As a lefty, she would throw a lot of pitches that missed way left and had counter clockwise spin. There were a lot of other issues that contributed to the problems, but it did take quite a while to work through it.