Umpire not calling the game by the rules and no protests

[RADcatcher]

You avoided the other question if there's so many umpires why is the average age over 60?


If umpiring was so attractive then people would flock to do it but it isn't happening.

And saying more isn't really a quantifiable number. Please provide some actual statistics. What is the percentage growth the last ten years?


And all of these travel tournaments are drawing kids away from rec ball, which is dying because some parent thinks their kid needs to be on an 8u travel team.

I can quantify that there's a shortage of softball umpires with a Google search and with the data that's been presented here before.



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Haaha avoid the question, ok.
Wasnt interested. And didnt take the question like it was just for me.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Here's a question. A serious one. Why do you care what someone is doing in the dugout? Do you care if you're walking in the parking lot at Wal Mart and someone is on the next aisle pitching a fit over a shopping cart wheel? Heck no. So why do you care what some coach is doing in the dugout? Why umpires let all of these things bother them is beyond me. It's almost as if they are looking for things to get pissed off about. Like they're on a power trip or something. I see these MLB umps always jawing at guys in the dugout. Why? Are they that power hungry? It's 50 feet away from you. Just ignore it and call the games. It's not that hard to do in the real world, so don't make the field any different.

I am talking about coaches screaming and yelling at umpires. That's why I care. In both cases I mentioned, the coach was yelling at my partner and being a total idiot when all they had to do was come out and ask, "Could you go to your partner on that? You had a bad angle/were blocked out/whatever." But did the coach do his job? No, he yelled at the umpires about doing their job.

If you don't want us paying attention to you, don't yell at us for your failures. That's not a difficult concept.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Not true. lol.......... not true at all! hahahaha

Definitely true, but not all the time. It depends on what state you are in.

 

[The Man In Blue]

The umpire was not following "proper procedure." Batting out of order occured twice, once they bat out of order and the 2nd time they had the wrong number and only first name on the lead off hitter so no way to match it on the last name on the back of her jersey. The other coach came out and had a private conversation that I could hear and he admitted that they batted out of order. The umpire still allowed it.

I can't recall if you said what code this was played under, so I'm just going to cite NFHS and offer to you that all codes are the same in this, whether they are baseball or softball.









There is EVERYTHING you need. So tell me again WHO didn't do their job?

An umpire cannot prevent a team from batting out of order or make a BOO call on their own. Batting out of order is EXPRESSLY an APPEAL play that MUST COME FROM THE DEFENSE BEFORE THE NEXT PITCH.

Then with circle violation, he sent the runner back instead of calling her out. Runner remained on third. I went out to the umpire and said "thats a circle violation right?" He said "Yes." And I replied "so then she's out right?" He then goes to the other coach and he explains to the coach that it's a circle violation and decides to send the runner back to second. This is a clear case of the umpire trying to give this rookie coach some slack.

Again, you don't mention what code. Since you mention "ALL-STARS," I will presume it is Little League. I will admit I am not an expert in Little League and will never call it since it expects to profit while everyone else (including umpires) are expected to pay LL PLUS donate their time for free, but I do know there are some LL "divisions" (not sure if that is the right term; age groups?) where sending the runner back is the right call. I will defer to your expertise on "circle violations" though. I can't seem to find "circle violations" when searching rule books.

Already peeved knowing we weren't going to get the call, I gave up and walked back to the dugout. After the inning ended, I walked up to the ump and politely asked why he didnt call her out. His response was because "you delayed the game with the batting out of order questions and I'm going to call the game however I want to call it." So i said, "I understand, and how im interpreting this is you're going to make up rules as you go." Conversation ended there and I walked away.

SO ... not concerned with whether the call was right or not ... just if you were going to get the call. Check. His response was not a good one, and neither is anything you are throwing at him. I would say you need to thank him for allowing you continue coaching the game. I wouldn't have.

This was an All Star tournament, not rec league. There was an entire rec league for warnings and screw ups by the coach. All Stars should be by the book. We had great umps all weekend, but this one guy was terrible.

Again, not sure if this is LL or not ... but in LL All-Stars come from rec leagues. I'm sure your local chapter looks forward to your service on the Board of Directors next season so you can set them all straight and lead the umpire training.

If umpires don't call the game by the rules, then why doesn't my team bat out of order? Why doesnt my team run the bases with the ball in the circle? Might as well leave the bases early while we're at it. There was no screaming at the umpire.

Your team can bat out of order. Just realize that when the opposing team properly appeals it, you will be penalized. If they don't, then you got away with it.

Rack up those "circle violations." I don't know why your team doesn't, you are the coach. Umpires don't stop you from doing that or leaving bases early.

Not sure I am buying that last statement based on what is being presented, but I was not there so I'll say "thank you for not screaming."

 

[The Man In Blue]

You know, that is a good idea.

To their credit, the local USSSA is trying to do better.
- Holding umpires to a better dress code - kicking them off the diamond or giving them the right shirt/hat and taking it out of their paycheck (honestly, we probably don't want the guys that are in it just for the money...).
- Auditing umpires
- holding free training clinics
- offering a fast-path to veteran pay (specifically umpiring 20 games with quality veteran umpires which is a great idea)
- working on retention

On retention - <10% last more than 2 years!!!
#1 reason - parents/coaches
#2 reason - assignors not treating them well (and they are trying to do better with that)

Personal bias acknowledged in advance ... USSSA enforces their goofy-arse uniform code because it is a source of revenue for them, not to provide a better product. Many umpires in my area have resisted and refused to call USSSA because they will not allow us to wear the "standard" softball uniforms (powder blue and navy). Add to that the fact that actually obtaining USSSA's inferior quality uniforms has traditionally been a pain in the butt.

I have NEVER seen USSSA do any of those things. That said, again, my area has not been a U-Trip dominated area. That is changing (and why I am calling much more baseball this summer and hardly any softball). Any national organization is only as good as its local people (which is also why USA is dying around here).

 

[The Man In Blue]

Arrive an hour early. Jesus H man come on. Find me an ump that doesn't get hyperbolic in these discussions please! Can't take any of this serious with these exaggerations being thrown around.

College games expect you to arrive an hour early.

I look forward to the days when I am retired and can arrive an hour early. I know many guys (and gals) who do.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Really? Has the number of high school games exploded? Has the number of college games exploded? Not really. Please provide some stats that backs this up.

I wouldn't say scholastic ball has "exploded," but there are more games being played than in the past in my area. When I started 10+ years ago (and longer ago than that when I played), V/JV would play back-to-back. Schools have largely decided they no longer want to play V/JV double-headers and are now scheduling them separately on different nights. Some larger schools will also have a Freshman team. So, yes, more games even at scholastic athletic levels.

 

[RJK]

SO ... not concerned with whether the call was right or not ... just if you were going to get the call. Check. His response was not a good one, and neither is anything you are throwing at him. I would say you need to thank him for allowing you continue coaching the game. I wouldn't have.

USA Softball, where the umps actually get paid unlike LL. In all age groups yes the correct call is the runner is out.

LMAO, i said it very nicely but pointed out my understanding of what he said to me. Wouldn't have said it if I got a "hey you know what, i totally blew that call. It's my last game of the day and I had a mental lapse." But that wasnt the case. He was giving this rookie coach some slack. You must be a real fun at softball games and parties.

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

USA Softball, where the umps actually get paid unlike LL. In all age groups yes the correct call is the runner is out.

LMAO, i said it very nicely but pointed out my understanding of what he said to me. Wouldn't have said it if I got a "hey you know what, i totally blew that call. It's my last game of the day and I had a mental lapse." But that wasnt the case. He was giving this rookie coach some slack. You must be a real fun at softball games and parties.

You had it, right up until the last sentence….sort of like how you handled the situation

 

[CoachJD]

You don't have to believe it but this is the expectation in most areas. Throw in leaving early to allow for traffic and we may well arrive earlier than that. Just because you don't see the umpires doesn't mean they aren't there. In most cases we've already spoken to the coaches on the field, gotten dressed/equipped, and had our pregame discussion by 30 minutes prior to game-time.

This happens maybe 5% of the time here. More often we're wondering where the umpire is at game time.

I'd say the AVERAGE time before game that an umpire arrives -- not shows up on the field, but puts his car into park -- is 15 minutes.

This year I had one umpire walk up about 5 minutes before game time with her bag of KFC, which she had just purchased at the location across the street from the park where we play.

The absolute worst, and this happens all too often, is when the umpire walks up 2 minutes before game time and is yelling at everybody to get started. And the thing is, those umpires are never, ever good at the job. And I'm certain we'd all be better off playing 10% fewer games just to get those umps out of the sport.

I'm envious of the people who live in places that are flush with umpires who care about doing their best, but it is frustrating when I see all the good umps who post here assuming they're the norm. You're not. You're as rare as that 12-year-old who throws 60, and assuming all umps, or even most, or even more than 1 in 5 are doing even the bare minimum is as ridiculous as the people here who act like it's normal to throw 60 when you're 12 because of that one girl at Nationals.

I had to explain to an umpire -- a guy I like very much, who does try, and who is registered to work baseball/softball in my state -- that the force at second goes away once you get the batter-runner out at first base. He had never heard of it before. And this guy is easily in the top half of umps around here. And, FWIW, it was just a normal between innings conversation because, ultimately, the missed call didn't matter and I wasn't in the mood to argue.

Are parents and coaches jerks? Sure.
Do umps not get paid enough? Eh, depends where you are. I think $80 for a HS game, what we pay, is perfectly reasonable.
Are there not enough new people coming into umpiring and sticking with it? Probably
But are the umps we do have largely a collection of people who aren't interested in or capable of doing the job well? From my experience, yes.

Oh, and I found out this week that a basketball ref/softball umpire I liked a lot died recently. It's almost a certainty that one of our games was the last one he worked, and I was likely one of the last, if not the last, person he communicated with. And I'm absolutely devastated by it. I wish every umpire we had was like him.