Teaching how to properly hold a softball...

[Gambler Bob]

You and I both know exactly why - as I said he was a career baseball pitcher. It's how just about any former baseball player would hold it. Old habits and preferences. But preferences don't make what you think happens in softball games actually happen.

By the way, I see you're still ignoring RAD's perfectly reasonable questions. I wonder why?

Are you going to deny that the person that you just posted a video of that you said "knows what he is talking about" completely told you that your opinion on holding seams was wrong?

You also just said that "about any former baseball player would hold it" with 4 seams, or do just about any former baseball player hold the ball wrong?

The least you could say is that you wrong when it comes to holding a ball with 4 seams.

If you don't think you are wrong, maybe you should go back and rewatch the Dan Blewett video is just shared.

 

[RADcatcher]

Finding the seams on a routine plays or any play that a player is not rushed on does not take any extra time. You find the seams while you are doing your footwork to throw. Literally, no extra time on a play that is not rushed.

Towards your explanation
If you find the seams while you're doing your footwork to throw and you say it doesn't take any time to find the seams why wouldn't you do it when you *are rushed? Genuinely asking to see what response there is to that difference of plays and your interpretation of using the seams.

I even went as far as saying you don't find the seams on a slow roller which is a play that you would be rushed on.

Definitely need to be able to hold and throw the ball correctly without the seams! And in my experience it is not necessary to have the seams to throw the ball well accurately and fast.

 

[Byron]

Are you going to deny that the person that you just posted a video of that you said "knows what he is talking about" completely told you that your opinion on holding seams was wrong?

You also just said that "about any former baseball player would hold it" with 4 seams, or do just about any former baseball player hold the ball wrong?

The least you could say is that you wrong when it comes to holding a ball with 4 seams.

If you don't think you are wrong, maybe you should go back and rewatch the Dan Blewett video is just shared.

Except I'm not and you still just refuse to understand that this isn't baseball and it's not the same. He even says when there's not a lot of time, you just grab and throw with a proper grip, regardless of seams. In softball, there is rarely extra time. Like I said, go ahead and watch games and see what actually happens. Orienting the ball to a four-seam grip intentionally rarely happens. Teaching players to try to do so regularly is foolish, particularly if as the OP posited, the players don't for sure know what a proper grip even is to begin with. The claims made here that it can be done without adding time are laughable.

 

[Gambler Bob]

Towards your explanation
If you find the seams while you're doing your footwork to throw and you say it doesn't take any time to find the seams why wouldn't you do it when you *are rushed?


Definitely need to be able to hold and throw the ball correctly without the seams! And in my experience it is not necessary to have the seams to throw the ball well accurately and fast.

Do you realize that there is a difference in a players footwork when they are rushed?

I feel like a broken record. I did not realize this needed an in depth tutorial or an example but I will try to explain this to you. For example, on a slow roller where a SS or 3rd baseman is charging a slowly hit ball (this could even be bunt) that the 3rd baseman or SS will be throwing on the run or off of one foot, or off the wrong foot. That is not the type of play where an infielder will be using proper footwork where he has time to find the seams.

When an infielder fields a ball that the player is not rushed on. The player has time to take proper footwork. Proper footwork would include a right step and a left step, then the player throws the ball. During those two steps the player has time to find a 4 seams grip. In some instances the player might even use a gather step, then a right step and a left step then throw, the player would also find the 4 seam grip in this scenario.

Outfielders should also throw with 4 seams almost all the time. Very few throws from the outfield where a player does not have time to find the seams.

I never once said that a player should not be able to throw the ball without finding a 4 seam grip. That would be silly.

I can see your point of view since you were a catcher. When a catcher is trying to release the ball as quickly there is not much time to be finding seams on the ball if you are trying to throw out runners. I am a bit surprised that you don't throw the ball back to the pitcher with a 4 seam grip.

 

[Gambler Bob]

Except I'm not and you still just refuse to understand that this isn't baseball and it's not the same. He even says when there's not a lot of time, you just grab and throw with a proper grip, regardless of seams. In softball, there is rarely extra time. Like I said, go ahead and watch games and see what actually happens. Orienting the ball to a four-seam grip intentionally rarely happens. Teaching players to try to do so regularly is foolish, particularly if as the OP posited, the players don't for sure know what a proper grip even is to begin with. The claims made here that it can be done without adding time are laughable.

You are an idiot, nut much else I can say about that.

From my very first post that I quoted of yours I explained that you can't find the seams on a rushed play. I am positive you never played baseball or softball past the rec league level.

 

[RADcatcher]

Do you realize that there is a difference in a players footwork when they are rushed?

Of course I recognize there are different footwork for throws. Since you commented about the not rushed scenario, asked for detail. Thanks for responding.

time to find the seams

That is a critical element

I never once said that a player should not be able to throw the ball without finding a 4 seam grip. That would be silly.

yes it would be silly

I can see your point of view since you were a catcher. When a catcher is trying to release the ball as quickly there is not much time to be finding seams on the ball if you are trying to throw out runners.

I am a bit surprised that you don't throw the ball back to the pitcher with a 4 seam grip.

( because it is unnecessary)
By the way along with extensively training catchers on throwing, train teams also. Working on efficiency is critical because time is critical.

Nice to read that others agree can throw the ball without having to find seams.


Good chat everybody.

 

[ArmWhip]

I'm still stuck on why find the seams? I just spent 10 minutes flipping a ball in the air, catching it in my throwing hand, then manipulating it in my fingers to get a 4 seam grip while drawing my arm back to the throwing position. It's very difficult and seems like a totally unnecessary complication to me, and I'm supposed to teach this to 10-14 year old girls who have much smaller hands then I have?

If you get addicted to the 4 seam grip what happens when you can't use it? So on a 'rushed' play where the level of difficulty goes up and the fielder is forced to use a grip that is unfamiliar and uncomfortable the chances of a bad throw are now greatly increased. Whereas if the fielder always used a random grip there wouldn't be an unnecessary complication. Do you really need a 'perfect' grip on a routine play?

I also question whether it's possible to 'automatically find' a specific grip without putting your attention on it.

 

[RADcatcher]

I'm still stuck on why find the seams? I just spent 10 minutes flipping a ball in the air, catching it in my throwing hand, then manipulating it in my fingers to get a 4 seam grip while drawing my arm back to the throwing position. It's very difficult and seems like a totally unnecessary complication to me, and I'm supposed to teach this to 10-14 year old girls who have much smaller hands then I have?

If you get addicted to the 4 seam grip what happens when you can't use it? So on a 'rushed' play where the level of difficulty goes up and the fielder is forced to use a grip that is unfamiliar and uncomfortable the chances of a bad throw are now greatly increased. Whereas if the fielder always used a random grip there wouldn't be an unnecessary complication. Do you really need a 'perfect' grip on a routine play?

I also question whether it's possible to 'automatically find' a specific grip without putting your attention on it.

Excellent post!

I as well have put in extensive work in transition and throwing. There is definitely an added involvement to try and sort the seams.

Since sorting the seams is an added event (thinking, feeling and adjustment /application)
to make a defensive play,
then there is an added mechanical moment in that transaction.

From my life experience in softball, find that sorting the seams is unnecessary.



People, do whatever it is you like to do. Teach, develop and grow softball as best we all can.

Please think through how the application of mechanics are utilized in real time game.
The application/ interaction with the ball and our mechanics really comes down to tenths of a second within the game. In defense the longer the ball stays in the glove, the closer the runner is to being safe. Transitional speed is equally important in getting outs!

 

[_MIA_]

a) Does it take longer to get a 4 seam grip, yes
b) Is there is enough time to do it for routine plays, yes I believe so
c) Is it important to do it? Not sure

 

[_MIA_]

and yes I need to empty my trash (they decided last year that the custodians would only be doing it once a month..)