TB vs. Rec

[Eric F]

you all's versions of All Stars are "B" teams and not "C"...? In this part of the country, there are plenty of "B" teams that travel around and would be just fine to play in your "Rec All-Star" games wouldn't they? Or would they?.....that's if we had it of course, which we don't....but I'm just trying to understand this as you are not the first person to discuss "Rec All-Stars" here and still don't understand it or see where it's listed by ASA or USSSA anywhere....

Most of the tournament flyers we see indicate..."ASA Recreational All-Stars Only. No Travel Teams."

 

[Dabears17]

you all's versions of All Stars are "B" teams and not "C"...? In this part of the country, there are plenty of "B" teams that travel around and would be just fine to play in your "Rec All-Star" games wouldn't they? Or would they?.....that's if we had it of course, which we don't....but I'm just trying to understand this as you are not the first person to discuss "Rec All-Stars" here and still don't understand it or see where it's listed by ASA or USSSA anywhere....

Go to the 'find a team' function on USSSA's website. You will see 'A', 'B', 'C' and rec/all-star teams.
USSSA Fast Pitch / ISTS Sports Statistics

In Northern California USSSA, you basically self declare yourself 'A' 'B' or 'C'. In ASA if you are rec league, your first All-Star team is 'B', your second in an age group is 'C', usually.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Both of our 10U teams are a mix of older and younger players. Although arguments could be made about a couple of players, our Gold team is the best of our 10U. Unfortunately, this resulted in all of the league's top pitchers being on Gold, leaving Silver pretty weak in that department. However, all of them are very good all-around players and deserve to be on Gold.

Thinking back, the make-up of our teams went back and forth due to our 96's being very strong/deep compared to the 95's and 97's. The top 96's dominated the Silver team the first year of 8U/10U and both the Gold and Silver teams the second year of 8U/10U. Some of the top 95's quit playing rec when we moved up to 12U, so we dominated the Gold and Silver teams the first year.

If pitchers are not going to start in another position on the Gold team, they should pitch on the Silver team. My DD was a bubble Gold/Silver player her second years at 8U and 10U. The coach for the Silver team recruited her to pitch for his team and being the #1 for him was a major factor in her development. She was the #1 pitcher on the 12U Gold team the next year and went travel after that.

 

[Eric F]

Thinking back, ours went back and forth due to our 96's being very strong/deep compared to the 95's and 97's. The top 96's played on the Silver team the first year of 8U/10U and made up the majority of both the Gold and Silver teams the second year of 8U/10U. Some of the top 95's quit playing rec when we moved up to 12U, so we made up most of the Gold and Silver teams.

If they're not going to start on the Gold team, they should pitch on the Silver team. My DD was a bubble Gold/Silver player her second years at 8U and 10U. The coach for the Silver team recruited her to pitch for his team and being the #1 for him was a major factor in her development. She was the #1 pitcher on the 12U Gold team the next year and went travel after that.

I don't necessary disagree with that. However, these girls are all Gold-caliber players outside of the circle, too. Even if they don't pitch, they're going to be effective on both sides of the ball. It sure would be nice to have one of them on Silver, though.

 

[Bchbum54]

From what I understand and what was emailed out by the league president about the ASA rules is that any rec player that participates in TB must stop by March something (I forgot the exact date) to be eligible for All-stars. I know and so do others in our league that a local league had violated such ASA rules and the entire leagues (ALL AGE DIVISIONS) All-stars was banned from participating that year, not just the violating team. To protect this from happening in our league our president was willing to ban the TB players from our All-stars if they did not comply with the ASA rules. That was not made to be spiteful towards the TB girls but to protect an entire league. TB HC made it sound like he wasn't going to abide by such rules and continue practice/games with the team and if the league president would have banned his players so be it, they were already halfway out the door anyway. Something happened before the cutoff date and the TB HC changed his position and ceased his TB activities. Now the girls are eligible for All-stars without committing any ASA violations. Now demands where made all the way until the selections, he wanted his girls for GOLD and he wanted to coach. threats where made that if neither happened he would pull his team and made it know to EVERYONE in the league. This created major drama and speculations within the Division. That was one of the major problems becausea lot of pparents where in the mind set to just let them go and others who thought highly of their DD's and they didn't make Gold questioned the process. As a representative of the league we didn't want that. We wanted the best team on Gold to represent our league and yes most the TB players were deserving there were still a couple rec players who were more talented than the bottom of the TB team players. In the end as a league we are happy for the girls and happy with our Gold team, but the whole process put a real strain on our league. I know its about the girls but with a league of over 300 players and collectively 600 parents its hard to publicly be held to the demands of 12 players and not have 500+ parents who don't fully understand or just want to create drama to openly criticize and complain about the leagues process. I understand and realize what TB is and I hope that DD will some day find a team. We have been approached by different TB teams and have been invited to practices and tryouts. DD is first year 10U '04 and wife and I have always said not until first year 12U will we consider. We ride DD pretty hard as it is and we dont want to burn her out just yet. If the time comes we wlil not do it the way this TB HC did it. No drama, no controversy, no threats and demands. Thats just my opinion, things could have been done differently is all and it's not that the league was trying to combat the TB team. There are just way to many other players it has to do right with. I said earlier I was happy for the girls who are moving forward but saddened that such a large group of talented girls will be leaving all at once. These are girls that i have seen grow for almost 5 years now DD has been friends with them for almost half her life. I know a lot of the families well and I know what they contributed to our league.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I don't necessary disagree with that. However, these girls are all Gold-caliber players outside of the circle, too. Even if they don't pitch, they're going to be effective on both sides of the ball. It sure would be nice to have one of them on Silver, though.

I edited that line to clarify what I meant, but not quick enough (sigh). There were a couple girls each year that wished they were playing on the Silver team instead of sitting on the Gold one. As someone else posted, the Silver team often has a better time...

 

[SoCal_Dad]

From what I understand and what was emailed out by the league president about the ASA rules is that any rec player that participates in TB must stop by March something (I forgot the exact date) to be eligible for All-stars. I know and so do others in our league that a local league had violated such ASA rules and the entire leagues (ALL AGE DIVISIONS) All-stars was banned from participating that year, not just the violating team.

I'm disappointed they banned all the league's teams unless the league was advocating the travel teams in multiple divisions. I'm guessing they suspected it was more widespread than just the one team.

We booted a girl from our all-star team the week before the District tourney because she started playing for a travel team while playing all stars. She skipped the last warm-up tourney to play for the travel team and that's when we found out what she was doing.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Little League used to try the "You can't play for another league, if you are on All Stars." Parents protested and said "My kid can do, what he/she wants."

So, now rec ASA is trying the same thing? People really get worked up about All Stars. All Stars at the rec level generally do not have the experience that a TB player has. Remember South Tucson winning the LL World Series, last year? That was a travel team.

 

[Momo'sDad]

I'm disappointed they banned all the league's teams unless the league was advocating the travel teams in multiple divisions. I'm guessing they suspected it was more widespread than just the one team.

We booted a girl from our all-star team the week before the District tourney because she started playing for a travel team while playing all stars. She skipped the last warm-up tourney to play for the travel team and that's when we found out what she was doing.

Two very different scenarios. By removing the TB player from your roster as soon as you discovered what she was doing, you protected the rest of your team from possibly being disqualified.

In the case of the ASA rec league that was banned from a summer of All-Stars, a league representative - normally the president or B program commissioner - signed off on the eligibility for those players. Even though only 1 team and 1 coach violated the rules, because the league said all the players were eligible, then the entire league was held liable. The signature of the league official lost its credibility, so the punishment did, in fact, fit the crime. The penalty is harsh for a reason, and league officials have a responsibility to make sure their coaches are compliant with the rules.

That said, these types of rules - which are intended to protect the rec player - are a major reason many coaches and parents decide to move to TB, which offers a lot more flexibility.

 

[JJsqueeze]

That said, these types of rules - which are intended to protect the rec player - are a major reason many coaches and parents decide to move to TB, which offers a lot more flexibility.

amen........