TB players skipping tryouts.. AM I out of line in my thinking.

[Amy in AZ.]

You are getting good advice here. Also, your wife needs to step out of it. She can say things like "I am not a coach. I know as much about it, as you do"

It is, also, possible that the coach has been shown this post by now.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

This is 12U, which is developmental. The win at all costs attitude is a bit early at this stage of the game. Power in numbers. Have all the disgruntled parents go to the coach together. He sounds like he's a real peach to have as a coach. My take is that he picked him, he plays them. 13 is at the high end of what I would take at 12U. 15...there is no way.

I can infer you are not from SoCal. The win at all costs attitude starts much earlier than 12U here.

 

[GatorGirl]

Don't jump on the complain train if you really don't need the ride. Sounds like you guys are fine. Many parents love to join the sympathy groups(been guilty) and it gets you no where, but on a one way trip to a bad rep. Steer clear so you aren't grouped with "those" parents.

We really don't know the entire story and until they do, there really is no reason for those parents to be stirring up trouble.

I am slowly getting rid of the attitude that "everything should be fair" because it does nothing but turn you into a victim.

Best of luck!

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I am slowly getting rid of the attitude that "everything should be fair" because it does nothing but turn you into a victim.

Once you get into a situation where the team is selected and not everyone makes it and guaranteed playing time (like rec ball) is no longer on the table, I think the parents new to it often confuse the word "fair" with "equal." It is a logical mistake to make because they are coming from situations where the forced equality of rec leagues is a part of the landscape and where they are told that the policy is in place to promote "fairness."

All players are not "equal."

That is a "fair" statement.

It is entirely possible to be fair in a TB situation where six of 12 girls play every inning of a six-game weekend, three girls play five complete games and sit one and three girls play one complete game and sit five. If that is how the coach believes the players stand and that is how much playing time they've earned, then it is fair.

Equal? No. Fair? Yes.

I believe that more often than not, this mistaking of equality for fairness is what turns folks into self-perceived victims. That and also having an inflated view of DD's standing on the team, which is easy to understand as we all love and support our daughters more than we possibly could the other girls.

EDIT: I just realized this sounds a bit like I am picking on you, GatorGirl. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I remember when you first started here .... you've since shown yourself to be intelligent, willing to listen and discuss issues and willing to alter your opinions when you feel someone has added enough to your understanding that it merits it. You have also managed to alter a few of my opinions. I commend you for slowly getting rid of the "everything should be fair" mentality.

I just thought if you go after getting rid of the "everything should be equal" mentality, it might happen a bit faster.

 

[CoogansBluff]

sorry, double post

 

[Momo'sDad]

You've presented a number of different issues. Here are a few that jumped out at me right away:

1) a developmental 12u team picking up players when parents were under the impression the roster had been finalized
2) a coach seeking to improve team through recruiting as opposed to improving through player development
3) a roster of 15 for a developmental 12u team
4) parents attempting to draw your wife/you into the gossip circle
5) player parents not understanding or respecting roles and boundaries

If the HC thought there was a possibility that some girls might not seek to join the team until the spring, then he should've left roster space available. Taking 11 from the fall tryouts into the winter workouts would've allowed you guys to have a solid roster even if the other 2 girls chose not to come join now after all. And if they did, having 13 isn't the worst thing in the world. But coming out of the tryouts, even if the HC didn't say it explicitly, it's reasonable for a parent to expect that the developmental 12u team's roster is full. That's a question I encourage parents to ask, though, when investigating teams. I understand that situations and circumstances can change regardless of what was said up front, but communication is key.

I hate gossip in any form (ask my wife), but your wife's position doesn't need to be nearly as uncomfortable as she seems to be allowing it to be. As JAD and Amy stated, she needs to make it clear to the people who are complaining to her that, even though she is part of the team staff, she is not part of the COACHING staff. She's the team's Treasurer, so she should gladly deal with any concerns about player accounts or team finances. In the case you have described, I could see where some parents might be asking her about the prorated 15% discount they should be entitled to now, but nothing beyond that.

Even if there are existing relationships with those other parents which can make it hard to be abrupt, liken saying "That's a coaching matter and I'm not in that loop" to learning to say "No" to people who would take advantage of the fact that you've always said "Yes" in the past.

I know we don't live in an ideal world and that lines can often be blurred, but the less indirect communication there is, the better. Personnel decisions are not the concern of the team Treasurer, unless the Treasurer is also the Manager/Head Coach, which is another problem in and of itself.

I don't like that your coach has now rostered 15 for a 12u developmental team. Even 13 is too many, IMO, unless an outright, no questions asked stud comes along and wants to join your team. None of us knows your HC's motivations or long-term plan, but adding 2 to 13 means there will be 15% less playing time for everyone, but the REALITY is that the reductions in playing will primarily be shared by the bottom 8, not the top 5, so that's probably going to be closer to an effective 25% reduction in playing time.

I don't mind my DD having to compete for a spot, but if I'm one of those parents, that's exactly what I'm looking at. I paid x dollars with the expectation - because of what the coach told me - that every kid would be playing at least 2 full games on Saturdays and that everyone would at least get in on Sundays if the team advanced past its first game.

The concerns and even outrage of those parents are justified, but if anyone does speak to you and you feel obligated to offer some degree of empathy, try to use language that's supportive without indicting the coach, even if he was in the wrong in the way he's gone about this whole thing.

Please note, sorry for the long post and I'm certainly not wagging my finger at you, because many of us have been there at some point and this whole ride is - or at least should be - a continuous learning experience for everyone.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I have to agree that I am not on board with 15 players on a team. I think 13 is the absolute maximum and I prefer 12. All my kids play and having more than 12 makes it difficult.

All teams are "developmental." All have getting better as a stated goal, regardless of level. Some are more competitive than others and parents having their DD try out for a team that has competing at a high level as a stated goal have to accept what that means. It is also quite possible to compete at a very high level even at 10U. It is easy to find high-level 12U ball almost anywhere. Girls can be pretty darn good by 12 years of age and if they want to play on competitive teams, great!

Player development is only one of many ways to make a team better. Adding higher-caliber players is another, and it can work wonderfully. So can "playing up" against older competition. A coach with a keen eye toward player development looks at all ways to accomplish it.

I just balk at the whole 15 players on the roster thing. That's a whole bunch of girls and I personally would not have added the two new girls to a roster that size. That does not mean I wouldn't have added them to a smaller roster if I thought they could improve the team and help accelerate its development, however.

 

[MsDinosaur]

My daughter is a VERY, VERY good player ( at least on this TB team. ) she is probably one of the top three this year and will certainly be the best U12 pitcher and player in the area next year. Why should she bother to try out again this fall, and why should she bust her tail all next winter in the gym when she could just show up in April?

I'm a little strange, but the way I see it, it's the other girl who missed out. Your daughter had the benefit of all the extra work over the winter that's going to make her a better player now and in the future. (If she's serious about playing at a high level, your DD should never be satisfied to just show up in April. That's for rec players.) Not only did Little-Miss-I-can't-be-bothered-to-tryout miss the whole winter of conditioning and development, she may well now be absolutely certain that she's entitled and doesn't have to bother working hard. Personally, if I were the coach, I wouldn't be rewarding her with a roster spot, because I wouldn't want a girl with a lazy attitude and I'd be worried that she'd be disruptive to the team morale. But I'm not the coach, so it's not my decision.

I expect every coach to be on the lookout for upgrades. I prefer for DD to be with a coach who does all that he/she can to wait till the end of the season to cut and who tries to at least get everyone playing time in pool games. It's not surprising that a coach would snap up a really good prospect at any time, though.

15 girls is too many at 12U IMO. If the coach was really "saving" a spot, I'd have expected the roster to be at 10-11 players in the fall, not already at a level I'd consider high for the age group. JMHO.

 

[PA SB Dad]

15 is too many for 12U, and usually what happens is that the roster narrows pretty quickly with players/parents leaving who are not seeing much playing time. Coaches who pull this sort of stuff usually do not last long at the younger age groups. Trust is a major factor in getting kids to come back, especially at 10U, 12U, and even 14U. TB is a small world, and word gets around about coaches who can't be trusted or don't communicate well.

That said, all of the girls busting their rears all winter had the opportunity to improve and win starting positions. If they felt anything was guaranteed to them and did not work hard through the winter, then that is no them for slacking off. In TB, there is always someone who is working harder to take your place away from you.

 

[SoAZDad]

Yes, good info here. But you and the parents only know what you know about this situation. You probably don't know all that the coach knows about this.

When I start to speculate and get angry about stuff like this, or when others do, I try remind myself (or them) what my dear old dad taught me a long time ago:

Don't believe anything that you hear, and only half of what you see.

I.e., chances are you witnessed things out of context or don't know the rest of the story.

Good Luck!