Spin
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How the spin is created is a preference, the direction of the rotation and the speed in which the ball is rotating is the absolute. There are way too many variables to give you a clear answer. Like speed of the pitcher, does she bowl or whip the release, hand positioning, straight arm circle, loose elbow, proper body lean, or stride, etc. I recommend getting a quality PC and work with your dd on whatever the PC suggests. For now study Bill Hillhouse clips on youtube or fastpitchtv.com. and look in the I/R in the classroom forum page and read/study what boardmember says and shows in the video clips.
- Feb 5, 2010
- 222
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gvm
Hillhouse also tells a great story about the number of first dates he went on because he used to spin a ball all of the time. Quick strong fingers help grenerate great spin. The more time they spend spinning the ball, the better they get at it. All of my dd balls are striped to be sure she is getting true spin. DD also uses a revfire to push herself Pitching with zip balls or whiffle balls, teach them to use there finger tips to finish a pitch.
Hillhouse also tells a great story about the number of first dates he went on because he used to spin a ball all of the time. Quick strong fingers help grenerate great spin. The more time they spend spinning the ball, the better they get at it. All of my dd balls are striped to be sure she is getting true spin. DD also uses a revfire to push herself Pitching with zip balls or whiffle balls, teach them to use there finger tips to finish a pitch.
Wrist & forearm strength also helps. Do some wrist curls with a barbell or hand weights. Do snaps with a weighted ball. Hand grips for fingers and hand strength. We also do those roll-ups where there is a weight hanging from a dowel/rod and you roll the weight up and down slowly while holding your arms straight out...those are burners!
Also, experiment with two vs three finger grips across the seams to reduce friction.
Also, experiment with two vs three finger grips across the seams to reduce friction.
- May 17, 2012
- 2,808
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Best advice. ^^
- Jul 26, 2010
- 3,553
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Fingertips fingertips fingertips. Great advice Madsdad. Spin is generated with the fingers, not the forarm or the wrist. Snap your fingers. Look at how much speed your middle finger generates before hitting your palm. That is what spins the ball. No physical way to duplicate that with your wrist.
-W
-W
Developing spin is an art in some ways, but also a science in that the best way to get great spin is to experiment--lots. There are several grips and releases, and as Coach James mentioned, the list of variables contributing to good spin is extensive.
One thing I really like about Coach Hillhouse's teaching is that he suggests that every pitch look the same. As you begin to experiment with different grips and releases, you may find that the upper body and arm start to add a little extra English. A drop or curve may result in the shoulders squaring a bit. Initially you might let that go while she gets a feel for the spin, but as she starts to find it, suggest she brings that feel of the release back to her overall fastball body mechanics.
Madsdad talked about how Hillhouse likes to take a ball with him where ever he goes and spends time spinning it. Try this. Play around with grips and whips and see how many ways you can get the ball to spin. You'll find that you can make the ball spin all kinds of ways when you're just whipping the ball from 9 o'clock. Transfering these spins to full motion becomes more of a challenge. By playing with different spins, you'll start to find one that transfers better than others to full motion. Don't give up on the other grips and spins, but once you find one that works, spend most of your effort dialing it in. The catcher should pay close attention and give constant feedback on spin and movement. An axis that is perpendicular to the catcher is ideal.
starsnuffer mentioned the middle finger and snapping the fingers. I like to think that many good spins are imparted by the middle finger and the thumb. With most spins, you may tend to find they work the best when the middle finger and thumb are opposite each other and working together. Adding the feeling of snapping the ball with these fingers can add a little extra to a rise, curve or drop. In the case of a rise or curve, some like to bend the index finger and add a flick.
I second starsnuffer's advice about the fingers and will add that the forearm and wrist set the stage for the fingers. In some pitches, the fingers are doing exactly the same thing, but the angle of the wrist to the forearm dictactes if it is a curve or a rise.
Although I wouldn't discourage some weight/resistance work as part of a core workout for overall fitness and strength, I'm not convinced that weight/resistance work for the wrist and forearm has the benefit to pitching that some suggest.
Best wishes,
Ken
One thing I really like about Coach Hillhouse's teaching is that he suggests that every pitch look the same. As you begin to experiment with different grips and releases, you may find that the upper body and arm start to add a little extra English. A drop or curve may result in the shoulders squaring a bit. Initially you might let that go while she gets a feel for the spin, but as she starts to find it, suggest she brings that feel of the release back to her overall fastball body mechanics.
Madsdad talked about how Hillhouse likes to take a ball with him where ever he goes and spends time spinning it. Try this. Play around with grips and whips and see how many ways you can get the ball to spin. You'll find that you can make the ball spin all kinds of ways when you're just whipping the ball from 9 o'clock. Transfering these spins to full motion becomes more of a challenge. By playing with different spins, you'll start to find one that transfers better than others to full motion. Don't give up on the other grips and spins, but once you find one that works, spend most of your effort dialing it in. The catcher should pay close attention and give constant feedback on spin and movement. An axis that is perpendicular to the catcher is ideal.
starsnuffer mentioned the middle finger and snapping the fingers. I like to think that many good spins are imparted by the middle finger and the thumb. With most spins, you may tend to find they work the best when the middle finger and thumb are opposite each other and working together. Adding the feeling of snapping the ball with these fingers can add a little extra to a rise, curve or drop. In the case of a rise or curve, some like to bend the index finger and add a flick.
I second starsnuffer's advice about the fingers and will add that the forearm and wrist set the stage for the fingers. In some pitches, the fingers are doing exactly the same thing, but the angle of the wrist to the forearm dictactes if it is a curve or a rise.
Although I wouldn't discourage some weight/resistance work as part of a core workout for overall fitness and strength, I'm not convinced that weight/resistance work for the wrist and forearm has the benefit to pitching that some suggest.
Best wishes,
Ken
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If you really want to know how to develop spin:
(1) The pitcher must have objective, immediate feedback.
(2) The pitcher must be willing to "play" in order to achieve spin.
What do I mean by "objective"? It must be something she can see (or hear) that is unfiltered by Daddy or Mommy.
The usual way for objective, immediate feedback is to set up some physical device (such as a rope or an obstruction) that the pitcher must throw "around". Another is visual aids (such as taping a softball) to show the spin.
The best way, although expensive, it to use something like the Rev Fire to tell the pitcher the spin rate.
The second part (the pitcher must be willing to "play" with the spin) is perhaps more important. The reality of "spin" is that each pitcher comes us with her own individual cues on how to spin the ball. If a player enjoys pitching, she will become mentally engaged with trying to get better spin...simply for the sake of trying to get better spin on the ball. (This is where parents begin to find out if a kid really likes pitching. Only kids who are willing)
As a final point, there is "spin" and "axis of spin". So, a pitcher not only has to learn how to spin the ball, but also must learn how to throw the ball with a particular spin axis without any precession (wobble).
Going back to my own experience when my DDs were trying to throw a rise, they had good spin, but not a good axis. When I caught a pitcher throwing a good rise, the axis was completely parallel to the ground.
(1) The pitcher must have objective, immediate feedback.
(2) The pitcher must be willing to "play" in order to achieve spin.
What do I mean by "objective"? It must be something she can see (or hear) that is unfiltered by Daddy or Mommy.
The usual way for objective, immediate feedback is to set up some physical device (such as a rope or an obstruction) that the pitcher must throw "around". Another is visual aids (such as taping a softball) to show the spin.
The best way, although expensive, it to use something like the Rev Fire to tell the pitcher the spin rate.
The second part (the pitcher must be willing to "play" with the spin) is perhaps more important. The reality of "spin" is that each pitcher comes us with her own individual cues on how to spin the ball. If a player enjoys pitching, she will become mentally engaged with trying to get better spin...simply for the sake of trying to get better spin on the ball. (This is where parents begin to find out if a kid really likes pitching. Only kids who are willing)
As a final point, there is "spin" and "axis of spin". So, a pitcher not only has to learn how to spin the ball, but also must learn how to throw the ball with a particular spin axis without any precession (wobble).
Going back to my own experience when my DDs were trying to throw a rise, they had good spin, but not a good axis. When I caught a pitcher throwing a good rise, the axis was completely parallel to the ground.
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I try to incorporate a Spin Rite Spinner, sometimes. But it takes ALOT of work to get it right, and not many young girls want to do that.
Interesting thing about my DD. At one of her tryouts they were using a Revfire. She's got extremely slow speed for her age (mid 40's pretty much) but she has high school avg spin (she's an 8th grader) according to the rev fire charts (That's around 18 or so on the rev fire).
Revfire seems like an awesome tool. I've almost bought one more than once.
Revfire seems like an awesome tool. I've almost bought one more than once.
