Sometimes, You’re a Loser by Amanda Scarborough

[Scorekeeper]

No he didn't yank players for striking out or not getting a hit but he did make girls run after games for striking out looking.... if the ball is put into play he didn't.

Well, I won’t say that’s wrong, but I will say I sure don’t think the best way to teach hitting is to make the players run. I’m of the mind that the time spent running could be better spent teaching and practicing hitting.

Also I should have added to my OP that when they made an error her would pull a girl and sit them down for an inning or 2 or possibly the whole game....talk to the girl about the error and usually put the girl back in the game depending how the girl responded to what he was talking about. It wasn't to embarass them it was to let them know that it wasnt acceptable to make that error(yes everyone makes errors) but not 2 or 3 in a row or shouldn't on a top travel team....

That’s a mighty big explanation to have left out.

I’m confused. You say they got benched for making an error, then later you say it wasn’t acceptable to make 2 or 3 in a row. Kinda tough to make more than one error when you’re on the bench after the 1st.

 

[wichita]

and how old is this?

And how old were you talking about?

Old 14U playing 16U....If your a top 14U playing 16U in So Cal you should know how to field and hit...

 

[Coachw01]

Great message...

I am an elementary school principal and I have a daughter who plays 10u travel ball. What I have seen coming up in the ranks in terms of new teachers is extremely troubling. I see new teachers who struggle to give kids a proper education and when they are told, instructed, assisted, and coached in better ways to do their job in a more effective manner, they are dumbfounded and shocked that anyone should dare tell them that they aren't doing something well. I have fired three teachers because of their inability to react and adjust positively to simple recommendations and suggestions. The everyone wins, everyone gets a ribbon/trophy philosophy is absolutely damaging young people as they approach adulthood. I am 1000% percent behind positive reinforcement and believe it is critical to the development of child but there needs to be distinction between winning and losing and being successful and unsuccessful. I can say since we have filled the vacant positions in our building with people unlike their predecessors, we are growing and improving at a rapid pace.

I can't tell you how glad I am that my father taught me that there are winners and losers and what it takes to be a winner. There were never any trophies or ribbons or medals just for being there. My dad always said that "to the victors go the spoils" and I am raising my daughter the same way. As I watch her compete with and against those who feel they are 'winners' just for showing up I have full confidence that when it comes to her and those others, no matter what the situation, she will beat them because she is not there for a novelty or anything tangible. She is there to win and the fact that she knows and understands how and what got her to that point, is worth more to her than anything you could ever hand her.

I beg of all of you to find a happy medium with kids and make them truly earn what they receive. One person said in a thread that it is not hurting them to give them such 'participation' type awards, I can tell you it is, and in the very worse way.

 

[SCDad]

Coachw01, thank you for your post. It is refreshing to hear from a fellow educator.

When softball players are very young, 8 thru 10, these participation awards are beneficial. Don't be discouraged. Once the young ladies hit 12 years old it is super competitive. The weak stop, and the strong survive. Once you hit high school in our area, the stakes are so elevated, with the community and press, only the best survive.

This wonderful game of softball is extremely tough. It is best to let the youngsters have fun while they have a chance. Even give them possibly a false pretense of hope. Gets more involved that way.

Very shortly these same young ladies will get beat down with their aspirations.

Today's softball is the most brutal, tough, competitive environment around. Those who want to think they had it "tough" when they were young are mis-guided. This generation of young folks in softball are learning to SURVIVE. Best sport in the land.

If these same "girls" can catch a break when they are young, I am all for it. Very soon it will be survival.

Not like the old days. It was easier then. These super young ladies mean business.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Let me clarify ....theses girls would strike out looking 75 percent of the time and shake their head no like the umpire didn't know what he was doing so this was his remedy to the problem which worked if you got called out on strikes every once in a while he didn't say a word. As far as your pet peeves go I can't speak for the rest of the country but almost every coach here make the girls run for punishment. Just curious how do you punish your kids without making them run?

I’ve always admitted I’m not a FP aficionado, but from what little I know about it and from my experience with BB, I honestly can’t conceive of a team other than rec, that a player would be able to make it through tryouts that struck out 75% of the time, let alone struck out looking 75% of the time. And you are saying that team had more than one girl like that?

 

[CoogansBluff]

I’ve always admitted I’m not a FP aficionado, but from what little I know about it and from my experience with BB, I honestly can’t conceive of a team other than rec, that a player would be able to make it through tryouts that struck out 75% of the time, let alone struck out looking 75% of the time. And you are saying that team had more than one girl like that?

I think he meant that 75 percent of her k's were looking, 25 percent were swinging. ... Not that they strike 75 percent of their at-bats.

And speaking of stats, I'd be curious how those percentages in MLB hitters correlated to good hitting.

 

[Scorekeeper]

I think he meant that 75 percent of her k's were looking, 25 percent were swinging. ... Not that they strike 75 percent of their at-bats.

Something I do that often rubs people the wrong way, is to point out things like that. Not to be mean, but to try to get people to speak precisely in order to help communication.

And speaking of stats, I'd be curious how those percentages in MLB hitters correlated to good hitting.

I’ve got to warn you that one of my “buttons” is people trying to compare amateur baseball stats to ML stats. The games are so different, all doing that can do is to cause skewed perceptions. That’s bad enough, but to use MLB stats in any way and FPSB in the same sentence is really lookin’ for trouble. The reason is, the games are played so differently.

FWIW, here’s the basic combined hitting stats for our HS team for the last 7 seasons. Since I show Caught looking as a separate number, you can define good hitting pretty much however you’d like and get a read on it.

http://www.infosports.com/scorekeeper/images/batting1.pdf

Here’s a curious question. Since I’m pretty sure there’s women’s professional FP, why not look at those numbers rather than MLB numbers?

 

[CoogansBluff]

Here’s a curious question. Since I’m pretty sure there’s women’s professional FP, why not look at those numbers rather than MLB numbers?

Would like to see that too. Just doubted that those stats are available.

I’ve got to warn you that one of my “buttons” is people trying to compare amateur baseball stats to ML stats. The games are so different, all doing that can do is to cause skewed perceptions. That’s bad enough, but to use MLB stats in any way and FPSB in the same sentence is really lookin’ for trouble. The reason is, the games are played so differently.

I think you are correct to call these comparisons ''dangerous,'' but I wouldn't go as far as to say that you can't use MLB stats to form theories on how amateurs should play the game. For one, I will note that MLB hitters are caught looking in about 25 percent of their strikeouts. The rest are swinging third strikes. That's enough to reinforce my believe that it's not a sin punishable by running if one of my amateur girls caught looking for strike three.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Would like to see that too. Just doubted that those stats are available.

Go to this URL, pick a year, then pick a team. It looks like not all the teams have stats for all the years, but there definitely are some you can look at.

profastpitch.com: Season Archives

I think you are correct to call these comparisons ''dangerous,'' but I wouldn't go as far as to say that you can't use MLB stats to form theories on how amateurs should play the game.

I don’t think I said that. I was trying to say no one should look at the MLB numbers and extrapolate that amateur numbers will equate to them. On a 1:1 basis.

For one, I will note that MLB hitters are caught looking in about 25 percent of their strikeouts. The rest are swinging third strikes. That's enough to reinforce my believe that it's not a sin punishable by running if one of my amateur girls caught looking for strike three.

I looked at one pro FP team and saw their hitters were at 32% and their pitchers were at 27%, so that should enforce it even more.

In the final analysis, I really believe there are far too many things that might be responsible for a KL for a coach to punish someone out of hand when it happens. That’s punishing the player who took a pitch that was outside of the zone but the umpire missed the call, the player who couldn’t pull the trigger on a BP FB right down the pike because they guessed wrong, and the player who has a poor idea of the strike zone all the same way. I suppose that's the most expedient way to deal with the issue, but I’d rather see some analysis done to find out what was going on, then allocating coaching time to the player most in need.

 

[wichita]

Agreed that playing time needs to be the motivator.

Also, I would suggest that the kid improved their pop time because of the quality advice that was provided. To suggest that the volume had anything to do with it is silly. There are other ways to light the fire - a yelling coach is better suited to football than softball or baseball. What is really sad about this is that there are coaches of top level ballplayers (assuming that they wouldn't be trying out for that team if they weren't) out there who don't know how to properly teach their catchers. NECC needs to thank those coaches.

So your saying that yelling coaches should be sport specific?.......interesting ...I'm not saying that all coaches should yell at their kids..... actually they can coach however they want to....not my issue, but from what I've seen in softball at the higher levels is not a coach that is a quiet talker to their players. Ive seen coaches who talk to there kids in a civil tone and not punish their players only to let the players run the team (and my DD has been on such a team) and i can tell you a coach like this doesn't get the most out of his players. I was told once by my DD's coach that the human psyche is willing to settle on just being good and if you don't find a way to push your players or they won't get any better than they are already. I guess what I'm trying to say is I've been on both sides of this argument and ill take the yelling screaming coach every time assuming they are both equa in coaching skills because yelling alone will not help you very much.