Sometimes, You’re a Loser by Amanda Scarborough

[wichita]

I’ve always admitted I’m not a FP aficionado, but from what little I know about it and from my experience with BB, I honestly can’t conceive of a team other than rec, that a player would be able to make it through tryouts that struck out 75% of the time, let alone struck out looking 75% of the time. And you are saying that team had more than one girl like that?

Yes their was. Their were 3 kids one of which was the coaches daughter. They came from a different team and were pretty good players but they came from a team that should have been better than what they were .....a lot better. But the coach was just a "let the girls play type of coach" and didn't really coach the girls and the team blew up. So he picked up these girls based on their potential talent they only lasted that summer then went back to an average team that they could play average ball on.....I guess they didn't want to be elite players which is fine but we weren't building a average team.....

 

[Scorekeeper]

Yes their was. Their were 3 kids one of which was the coaches daughter. They came from a different team and were pretty good players but they came from a team that should have been better than what they were .....a lot better. But the coach was just a "let the girls play type of coach" and didn't really coach the girls and the team blew up. So he picked up these girls based on their potential talent they only lasted that summer then went back to an average team that they could play average ball on.....I guess they didn't want to be elite players which is fine but we weren't building a average team.....

Well, it just goes to prove how little I know about FPSB. A supposedly great coach trying to build an elite team picks up 3 players who strike out looking 75% of all plate appearances they’ve had. I can tell you that’s a paradigm I’ve never even heard of in baseball.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

... from what I've seen in softball at the higher levels is not a coach that is a quiet talker to their players. Ive seen coaches who talk to there kids in a civil tone and not punish their players only to let the players run the team (and my DD has been on such a team) and i can tell you a coach like this doesn't get the most out of his players. I was told once by my DD's coach that the human psyche is willing to settle on just being good and if you don't find a way to push your players or they won't get any better than they are already. I guess what I'm trying to say is I've been on both sides of this argument and ill take the yelling screaming coach every time assuming they are both equa in coaching skills because yelling alone will not help you very much.

I'd put Marty Tyson and Tony Rico on opposite ends of this spectrum and Tony's team is usually better. They're both effective if they have players that respond to their style. The things they have in common is the ability to attract top talent, set the bar high and coach their players up.

 

[CoogansBluff]

... from what I've seen in softball at the higher levels is not a coach that is a quiet talker to their players. Ive seen coaches who talk to there kids in a civil tone and not punish their players only to let the players run the team (and my DD has been on such a team) and i can tell you a coach like this doesn't get the most out of his players. I was told once by my DD's coach that the human psyche is willing to settle on just being good and if you don't find a way to push your players or they won't get any better than they are already. I guess what I'm trying to say is I've been on both sides of this argument and ill take the yelling screaming coach every time assuming they are both equa in coaching skills because yelling alone will not help you very much.

In bold, you are giving an example of an ineffective coach who does not yell. But there are examples too of ineffective coaches who do yell and punish excessively. They often find themselves in the news. IMO, you don't have to yell or be a hard rear to discipline people.

It's interesting what the coach told you about human nature, that it will be content w/ just being good. Will have to think about that more. The issue really isn't yelling, which is merely the tone of the voice, but what is it? The use of punishment and shame tactics? Or just the willingness to give someone a good butt-chewing, or to show displeasure? I think it also helps to recognize these traits as being on a spectrum. It's not like there are two kinds of coaches. Not that you were saying they were. But it's more helpful to me to see coaches and leaning more one way or the other.

 

[Greenmonsters]

So your saying that yelling coaches should be sport specific?.......interesting ...I'm not saying that all coaches should yell at their kids..... actually they can coach however they want to....not my issue, but from what I've seen in softball at the higher levels is not a coach that is a quiet talker to their players. Ive seen coaches who talk to there kids in a civil tone and not punish their players only to let the players run the team (and my DD has been on such a team) and i can tell you a coach like this doesn't get the most out of his players. I was told once by my DD's coach that the human psyche is willing to settle on just being good and if you don't find a way to push your players or they won't get any better than they are already. I guess what I'm trying to say is I've been on both sides of this argument and ill take the yelling screaming coach every time assuming they are both equa in coaching skills because yelling alone will not help you very much.

What I'm saying is that I don't believe you can play BB or SB well or consistently unless you are relaxed and focussed with the ability to ramp up and focus intensely for brief periods on multiple occasions. IME, a coach that motivates by yelling and screaming, even if strictly positive, creates in his players an emotionally-charged surge or peak that isn't sustainable or productive in the context of a BB or SB game. Whereas yelling and screaming may fire up players to want to run through a proverbial brick wall and is potentially beneficial in a sport like football, going to the plate w/ the intent of murdering the ball or trying to throw the ball with everything you've got to overpower a hitter usually ends poorly.

Different players respond differently to different coaching styles and one size clearly does not fit all. Unlike TB where you can switch teams comparatively easily, it is critically important to do your homework in order to find a good college fit!

FWIW - Players with the yelling/screaming coaches are typically advised to ignore the volume and listen to the message. Which begs the question, was the volume necessary in the first place?

 

[RetiredCoach]

I agree with Greenmonsters. BB/SB is a game of relaxation. If the players are afraid of the coaches
and are afraid to make an error, they are probably apt to go after fewer balls and make more errors.

I've seen plenty of teams being very successful at high levels without having yelling nasty coaches. To
me, it is more an issue of the coaches emotional control than being two different styles.

I think that us adults can ask ourselves, would be rather work for a yelling, nasty boss or one who is
more kind and considerate? Who would you be motivated to do work harder for? There's no doubt
in my mind what my answers are to this question.

 

[wichita]

I agree with Greenmonsters. BB/SB is a game of relaxation. If the players are afraid of the coaches
and are afraid to make an error, they are probably apt to go after fewer balls and make more errors.

I've seen plenty of teams being very successful at high levels without having yelling nasty coaches. To
me, it is more an issue of the coaches emotional control than being two different styles.

I think that us adults can ask ourselves, would be rather work for a yelling, nasty boss or one who is
more kind and considerate? Who would you be motivated to do work harder for? There's no doubt
in my mind what my answers are to this question.

Bold above ....No one was affraid of the coach that I could tell and i can tell you every kid on that team by mid summer that year was diving for balls and hitting up a storm, We went 23-5 that summer and won 3 tournaments. not saying that a hard nosed yelling coach is a necessity but it works for him.

 

[wichita]

In bold, you are giving an example of an ineffective coach who does not yell. But there are examples too of ineffective coaches who do yell and punish excessively.1st bold.... They often find themselves in the news. IMO, you don't have to yell or be a hard rear to discipline people.

It's interesting what the coach told you about human nature, that it will be content w/ just being good. Will have to think about that more. The issue really isn't yelling, which is merely the tone of the voice, but what is it? The use of punishment and shame tactics? Or just the willingness to give someone a good butt-chewing, or to show displeasure? I think it also helps to recognize these traits as being on a spectrum. It's not like there are two kinds of coaches. Not that you were saying they were. But it's more helpful to me to see coaches and leaning more one way or the other.

1st bold.....agree completely never said you had to yell to be a good coach...was just saying that this was the way this particular coach coached no more no less.

2nd bold.......I don't have to think about it ......lets look at it this way...you have a ss and coach tells her "your my ss". do you think she will get as good as a player that the coach tells "your a good ss but nothing is a givin and you will have to compete for your job to get that position and continue to compete to keep that position" now im not a rocket scientist but im pretty sure the kid that has to compete for her position will get better than the a player that has "no worries" about her position. That being said there are exceptions but its more the exception than the rule. This is why I believe that the top travel teams are as good as they are (true they get top talent to start with)but also there 2-3 deep at all positions so no players are guaranteed a position at all.

 

[CoogansBluff]

.......I don't have to think about it ......lets look at it this way...you have a ss and coach tells her "your my ss". do you think she will get as good as a player that the coach tells "your a good ss but nothing is a givin and you will have to compete for your job to get that position and continue to compete to keep that position" now im not a rocket scientist but im pretty sure the kid that has to compete for her position will get better than the a player that has "no worries" about her position. That being said there are exceptions but its more the exception than the rule. This is why I believe that the top travel teams are as good as they are (true they get top talent to start with)but also there 2-3 deep at all positions so no players are guaranteed a position at all.

OK, now I've thought about it more.

I wasn't talking about the value and need for competition. I was talking about your preference for a yelling, screaming coach over a more laid-back, quieter coach (assuming equal coaching skills otherwise). My assumption was that you're saying that players do better when they have someone cracking the whip w/ yelling and screaming, and that the threat of coach going off on them is a motivator that most players need. It's probably true that some athletes need that to perform at their best. But I'd say many don't need that, and might suffer under that type scenario. So it's probably important that coaches find the players that respond to their style, and vice-versa.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

... It's probably true that some athletes need that to perform at their best. But I'd say many don't need that, and might suffer under that type scenario. So it's probably important that coaches find the players that respond to their style, and vice-versa.

Bingo, I've seen both cases. Some high-level players are destroyed by a coach yelling at them for every little thing. Some others need the threat of being yelled at to stay focused all the time.

Psychology studies show neither positive nor negative reinforcement work by themselves over the long run. Coaches need to use both and know when each is appropriate and with whom.