Running over the catcher

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,319
113
Florida
Whoa... hold on. "Malicious," by definition, requires intent. It's in the definition of the word and its root (malice).

That is a specific choice of word. It's not "hard" contact or "rough" contact. It's described as malicious contact for a reason (although, it could be the people who write the rulebooks don't understand the definition of words. It would not be the only time their poor grasp of language caused a problem).
That may be the word definition, but malicious contact in the rule book does also account for a level of clumsiness/lack of rule understanding/poor decision making, etc.

So while the action may not be intentionally, by rule it still does fit into malicious contact. In the heat of the moment, I have seen players basically run into a player at full speed - they didn't mean to nor intend to - but they still did it and it is still malicious contact and an ejection.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,319
113
Florida
I couldn't find the video, but here is a post that has pictures of the play in question. Pretty class-less (IMO) commentary by player's family...


Ugh... As I said, I never make calls without seeing the play (video or otherwise) but in this case that is the photo you use to help instruct other umpires on when to eject a player.
 
Dec 2, 2013
3,424
113
Texas
Are you kidding? If the SS fields the ball in the base bath before the runner gets there should they just expect to be trucked by the runner anyway? If a runner is caught in a pickle, should they just run over/into the defender? I do not understand why some people think that catchers are fair game in this type of situation.

The base path is approximately one arm reach - if the catcher decides to stand to the side of the baseline - technically the runner would be able to avoid the tag while not being out of the base path.

How was R1 stuck? Looking at the pictures, she was running vertically 3 feet from home plate - she had no intention of trying to slide. Judging her size, she probably isn't athletic enough to slide and just gets by by bowling over people. And judging by the comments on facebook (parent?) they applaud her for it.`
Not sure why you say Are you kidding--I didn't see the pics? My DD plays catcher so I am "Pro Catcher-No trucking" kind of dad. DD was playing SS vs ETBU last year. Grounder hit to her at SS, Runner going from 2B to 3B literally blindside tackled her before the ball got to her. Busted up her lower back pretty good. From my vantage point on the hill in CF (pattar would love this spot) it was malicious and totally avoidable. Yeah I was hot. Bottom line. If a collision is avoidable, you avoid it. If the ball gets there way before the runner and it's pretty obvious a tag out is imminent, you(Runner) give up or try to squirt around the tag. No need to barrel over the fielder. If the catcher has enough time and the runner is flying down the line, self preservation comes to mind. Finesse the play with a swipe tag ready to throw the next runner out. And yes there is a certain clumsiness at the younger ages. This is the reason many rec leagues have a "slide at home" rule.

Now that I see the pics from the OP. I have more questions. Not sure how long the catcher had the ball in possession prior to the collision. But, the runner should have slid. She is one step away from the plate. The runner looks to be a BIG kid compared to the catcher. Did the runner try to take advantage of her size? Perhaps she has done this prior.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
From my vantage point on the hill in CF (pattar would love this spot) it was malicious and totally avoidable.
Lol..I usually roam from LF to RF with an occasional drive by to the stands to make sure my boys are not causing too much havoc..
 
Dec 2, 2013
3,424
113
Texas
What if it was the SS at 2B instead of the catcher? You wouldn't advocate for the runner to bowl over the SS and the SS try to side swipe a tag would you? Why should the catcher be treated different than any other defender?
SS's feet work for the most part are better than most catchers (generalization). Infielders swipe tag then show the ump the ball in the glove all the time. I teach this type of tagging vs sitting there like a statue and taking the brunt of slide. Picture 3B with left foot inside the bag on a steal. C throws the ball and 3b swipe tag. Some coaches teach straddle the bag. This opens the players up for injuries.

The other thing I hate seeing is when the fielder reaches towards the runner chest high for a tag instead of letting the runner come to them for the tag and tag at the feet. I don't know how many tags chest high have been ruled safe because the runner slid under the tag. I have seen catchers advances towards the runner as the runner is coming to the plate. Why? The runner is already coming towards you be patient and apply the tag.
 
Jul 13, 2014
89
8
Nashville, TN
Now that I see the pics from the OP. I have more questions. Not sure how long the catcher had the ball in possession prior to the collision. But, the runner should have slid. She is one step away from the plate. The runner looks to be a BIG kid compared to the catcher. Did the runner try to take advantage of her size? Perhaps she has done this prior.
Catcher had the ball when runner was ~2/3 to home; she was essentially standing there waiting. The runner noticed that, paused for a split second, then made the decision to continue toward home plate with the collision the result.
 
Dec 2, 2013
3,424
113
Texas
Catcher had the ball when runner was ~2/3 to home; she was essentially standing there waiting. The runner noticed that, paused for a split second, then made the decision to continue toward home plate with the collision the result.
I think we can agree that the runner should not have done that. If I am the catcher and I see a locomotive come my way, I simply step aside to avoid the collision and make the tag. At this age, the probably don't quite understand that skill set, but hopefully she does now.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
Good chance no one wins a collision but sometimes one person gets the brunt more than the other.
Can remember an incident in college where the opposing team Runner did a really late slide and a hack job of a slide into our catcher. * of which our catcher is a very nice person and would never want to hurt anybody.
Catcher got up to grab the ball which was really close to them and the runner, after this gnarly Collision, decided to reach out and grab our catcher's face mask.
Of which our catcher proceeded to chest bump the runner and she was thwarted backwards about 2 ft. Everything ended in that moment. Umpire didn't have to interfere, no one got thrown out.
When we asked our catcher wow what the heck was that about? She kind of shrugged and said I think that Runner broke her finger on my face mask but when I chest bumped her back she looked scared so I stopped.
 
Aug 29, 2011
2,584
83
NorCal
SS's feet work for the most part are better than most catchers (generalization). Infielders swipe tag then show the ump the ball in the glove all the time. I teach this type of tagging vs sitting there like a statue and taking the brunt of slide. Picture 3B with left foot inside the bag on a steal. C throws the ball and 3b swipe tag. Some coaches teach straddle the bag. This opens the players up for injuries.

The other thing I hate seeing is when the fielder reaches towards the runner chest high for a tag instead of letting the runner come to them for the tag and tag at the feet. I don't know how many tags chest high have been ruled safe because the runner slid under the tag. I have seen catchers advances towards the runner as the runner is coming to the plate. Why? The runner is already coming towards you be patient and apply the tag.
You're simply describing proper tag work on the part of the fielder and assumes the runner is going to act "normal" and slide/dive into the bag and not come in trying to bowl over the defender. That seems to be a separate issue from the the one being discussed.

And yeah high tags are just inviting a safe call.
 
Top