running in fair territory?

[Sweet Lou]

Thanks Bret and Green....but this was a single base. SO the runner has to see where the fielder isset up and pick her path accordingly?

She is always allowed the 3 ft' running lane in foul territory. It is only if she is out of that lane and hit with the ball that the ump can rule interferece.

But as MTR correctly points out if the 1B is set up on the foul side of 1st to receive a throw she can go into fair territory and should not be called for inerference even if hit with the throw.

 

[coachdan]

I had a simular situation happen to my team this weekend. Swinging strike 3 on batter catcher misses the ball and batter running to first, catcher goes back to the fence to get the ball then throws to first and hits the runner in the back and she was called out for running outside of the running lane. I question the call because the fielder was in fair territory and catcher was throwing from backstop, so they were throwing accross running lane but I loss that one I was not sure of the rule. Was that the correct call?

 

[Comp]

I had a simular situation happen to my team this weekend. Swinging strike 3 on batter catcher misses the ball and batter running to first, catcher goes back to the fence to get the ball then throws to first and hits the runner in the back and she was called out for running outside of the running lane. I question the call because the fielder was in fair territory and catcher was throwing from backstop, so they were throwing accross running lane but I loss that one I was not sure of the rule. Was that the correct call?

That would depend on where along the backstop the throw was coming from. If the ball was off to the 1st base side, then I would say no, probably was not a proper call. If the ball was off to the 3rd base side, then it may have been. Also, just because the runner got drilled by the throw does not necessarily mean they should be called out. It needs to be a quality throw by the catcher that could be caught by the defensive player at 1st.

 

[Momo'sDad]

No, a runner or batter-runner may run anywhere they please. The only rule involving this is on the last half of the distance, if a BR interferes with the defender receiving a throw at 1B, the BR can be ruled out if NOT within the 3' lane at the time of the INT.

It is a little different in each organization, but in general is the same.

ASA

Batter hits medium-speed grounder down 1B line which glances off 1B's glove and into the running lane a little more than halfway to 1B. As 1B is picking up the ball, she's occupying the running lane. In an effort to avoid the tag, BR runs into fair territory and reaches 1B safely. The fielder retrieved the ball quickly, but just missed making the tag.

BU calls BR out for running outside the baseline.

It was an intense game and our team pulled it out, but I didn't like that call because I didn't think the BR was required to remain in the running lane, especially if there was someone there.

 

[MTR]

ASA

Batter hits medium-speed grounder down 1B line which glances off 1B's glove and into the running lane a little more than halfway to 1B. As 1B is picking up the ball, she's occupying the running lane. In an effort to avoid the tag, BR runs into fair territory and reaches 1B safely. The fielder retrieved the ball quickly, but just missed making the tag.

BU calls BR out for running outside the baseline.

It was an intense game and our team pulled it out, but I didn't like that call because I didn't think the BR was required to remain in the running lane, especially if there was someone there.
.

Fair territory, the 3' lane and the baseline are irrelevant to the play.

The only question is did the BR move 3' away from the BASE PATH at the time the defender attempted to make the tag.

If she did, the BR is declared out and the ball remains live. If not, play on.

 

[Mr T]

Does a runner have to run in foul territory down to first base? In case it matters, it was on a bunt, she didn't interfear with the throw. There was only one bag at first, no safety base.

Thanks

This happened to our team too. Batter bunted the ball, then ran down the line but was in fair territory. The umpire judged that even being in the way of the throw was interference, i.e. the catcher should have a clear look down the line and not have to try to throw over the runner. That is what he said, I have no idea of the subtleties of this rule.

In our case there was a safety base, so it may be completely different.

What about when 1B is pulled off the base on a bad throw? Does the lane come into play at all? Is it always up to the runner to avoid 1B, or does 1B have any responsibility?

 

[honus14]

Greg and Mr T, let's try it this way. Take a look at your field. If it's marked correctly - and it probably isn't - the 30' leading up to first base has an extra line, 3 feet into foul territory. If the line isn't there, pretend it is. Between that line and the foul line is the running lane.

If the runner stays in that lane, she will NOT be called for interference with a throw unless she intentionally interferes. This is true regardless of whether the throw comes from the fair or foul side.

If the throw comes from the foul side - and the runner will know this by seeing the fielder go to the foul side of the base - the runner may ALSO go into FAIR territory, within 3 feet of the foul line. However, she is STILL OKAY if she stays in the marked lane.

Mr T, the lane has nothing to do with the fielder obstructing the runner. If the fielder does not have the ball, she has to get out of the runner's way. That's the same at all times, at all bases.

Does that help clear it up?

Edit: Mr T, as Comp said above, there needs to be a throw to interfere with. We can't read the catcher's mind, and guess why she didn't throw. There's no rule against interfering with a "look."

 

[MTR]

This happened to our team too. Batter bunted the ball, then ran down the line but was in fair territory. The umpire judged that even being in the way of the throw was interference, i.e. the catcher should have a clear look down the line and not have to try to throw over the runner. That is what he said, I have no idea of the subtleties of this rule.

In our case there was a safety base, so it may be completely different.

What about when 1B is pulled off the base on a bad throw? Does the lane come into play at all? Is it always up to the runner to avoid 1B, or does 1B have any responsibility?

Let's try again.

Start by forgetting the term "fair territory". It is irrelevant and has zip, nada, zilch, nothing to do with the rules involving a runner or batter runner.

There is no restriction for a BR and where s/he runs, only that the BR can be exempt from being ruled for INT if they are running in the 3' lane and does not commit an act of INT with the defender receiving the throw at 1B. Since the 3' lane does not begin until halfway to 1B, the BR would have to do something to INT in the first 30'. Simply running toward 1B in the first 30' is NOT an act of INT.

 

[BretMan]

This happened to our team too. Batter bunted the ball, then ran down the line but was in fair territory. The umpire judged that even being in the way of the throw was interference, i.e. the catcher should have a clear look down the line and not have to try to throw over the runner. That is what he said, I have no idea of the subtleties of this rule.

To paraphrase the rule, if the batter-runner is out of the three-foot running lane AND interferes with the fielder receiving the throw at first base, then the batter-runner is out. You need to have both of those elements in place to call interference on this play.

If there was no throw made...then you obviously can't say that the batter-runner interfered with the fielder receiving the throw!

I'm not 100% sure if there was or wasn't a throw made on your specific play. Let's assume there was. Let's also assume that the catcher airmailed one over the base and into right field- all because the runner was outside of the lane.

This is where the concept of a "quality throw" comes into play. A "quality throw" would be one directed at the fielder on first base who is receiving it, within close enough proximity to the fielder that it can actually be caught and reaching the fielder in sufficient time that an out could reasonably be expected.

Not only must there be a throw on this play, but that throw must be a quality throw. A ball sailed into the outfield doesn't fit the bill.

 

[jbooth]

To paraphrase the rule, if the batter-runner is out of the three-foot running lane AND interferes with the fielder receiving the throw at first base, then the batter-runner is out. You need to have both of those elements in place to call interference on this play.

If there was no throw made...then you obviously can't say that the batter-runner interfered with the fielder receiving the throw!

I'm not 100% sure if there was or wasn't a throw made on your specific play. Let's assume there was. Let's also assume that the catcher airmailed one over the base and into right field- all because the runner was outside of the lane.

This is where the concept of a "quality throw" comes into play. A "quality throw" would be one directed at the fielder on first base who is receiving it, within close enough proximity to the fielder that it can actually be caught and reaching the fielder in sufficient time that an out could reasonably be expected.

Not only must there be a throw on this play, but that throw must be a quality throw. A ball sailed into the outfield doesn't fit the bill.

What you stated is correct for baseball and ASA softball, but in looking at USSSA Fastpitch rules, I noticed that it doesn't say anything about the fielder taking the throw. It simply says the batter-runner is out if he runs outside the 3 foot lane.

I haven't worked softball for quite awhile. Is there a casebook on USSSA that would clarify this?

Here is the USSSA rule 8-17-e

E. When he runs outside the three-foot running lane (last half of the distance
from home plate to first base) while the ball is being fielded or thrown to
first base.
EXCEPTION: This infraction is ignored if it is to avoid a fielder who is
attempting to field the batted ball or if the act does not interfere with a
fielder or a throw.