Research into hitting fast pitching

[Indiana's DH]

Background:
I coach a first year 16A team. We were a decent 14B team last year, made the jump to 16A and we do well against pitching in the 55 MPH range but we struggle with contact near 60 MPH and up. We have no wins against pitchers above about 58 MPH and from this point forward in our season, that's about all we'll face.

I had the day off today so I spent a couple hours with a pitching machine at the field and wanted to pinpoint where the mechanical breakdowns occur vs fast pitching.

Approach:
I setup the machine at top speed (70 MPH) from 38 feet to match the release point. I stepped in there and I was a mess. Went thru about 50 balls and hardly squared any up at all, never came close to a HR (200 ft fence), and had only a few that would have even been base hits. Mostly weak grounders, flares and pop ups. Then I started backing the machine down 5 MPH at a time, hit 50 balls at 65 MPH, 50 at 60 MPH, 50 at 55 MPH, and 50 at 50 MPH. Below 60 MPH I was a terror. Almost every swing was a shot off the barrel, everything to the fence and many well over. Then I worked my way back up to 70 MPH to see what happens. The break downs in my swing were easy to pick out.

Things I felt:
In the 50-55 MPH range I had plenty of time to see the ball come out of the machine, make a strong positive move back to balance, and really drive my front shoulder hard into contact. I could load at release, see the pitch and make the positive move as the ball is coming at me. This was very comfortable, not stressing, and very fun to drive the ball. But, at around 60 MPH I started to struggle. I started the positive earlier, but the positive move was feeble, my weight stayed back, my front shoulder was soft, I spun on my back foot, and the weak backside caused me to have a scoopy hand path. All of this seemed to come from the simple fact that I had to time my positive move prior to seeing the pitch, and that was so disconcerting that it resulted in a feeble positive move and the scoopy/spinny swing.

How to coach it:
At 60 MPH and above the girls have to attack their hitting zone before they see the pitch. They should have a hitting zone that reflects the count (a selective hitting zone with no strikes, an expanded hitting zone with 2 strikes, etc.). Attacking their hitting zone is the challenge. In the 50s they can simply see the pitch and attack it with an aggressive positive move. At 60-70 MPH they must attack the hitting zone prior to seeing the pitch, then if the pitch is in that zone they launch the swing. Attacking the hitting zone means loading the weight back, coiling on an aggressive positive move (stride), and getting the front foot down. Doing all this prior to seeing the pitch appears to me to be the challenge associated with faster pitching. I would think we should be able to practice it with front toss from short distances - using sand balls or from behind a net. The key is to stress them into having to attack the hitting zone before release.

Any other experience or research with the evolution of your hitters from pitching in the 50s to pitching in the 60s?

Steve

 

[riseball]

No empirical research just observations. Seems like at 16/18U there is a sweet spot from 54-58mph where girls tend to get all over a pitcher unless she has exceptional (2-3 balls) movement. I would rather face a pitcher throwing 54-58mph than 48-52mph. At 60+ it all depends. If the pitcher is simply throwing heat with no movement or change of speed we are all over her. Even at 65mph you can't just blow the ball by a good hitter if it is fat and flat. If they are 60+ with good movement and can changes speeds they will be tough to hit. That is pretty much the description of the elite level pitchers in the Supers and WCWS.

Beyond visual techniques which they should be using regardless of the speed, what I have found works well is to get hitters to slow down their swings. It is a normal reaction to try to speed up the swing to compensate for the speed of the pitch. The result is the timing and control goes south. Hitters must maintain discipline, remain in control, and execute their mechanics.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Embrace the Holy Grail.

Never cheat the load. Refuse to be rushed.

Add rhythm.

Learn to use your eyes to slow the game down.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Good job IDH, understanding and feeling it so that you can teach it is often overlooked by many. Principally it is a matter of adjusting timing and the go, go, go...go/stop approach is necessary; however, if the hitter's mechanics are poor, somewhere between 55 and 60 is where the success drops to near zero IME. Take a hard look at their mechanics - if they are sound, then your planned approach is solid. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

 

[okie]

Great post and thank you.

My DD is only 8 and our team is just 10U so the fastest we see is 45-50 (from just one pitcher) but they have struggled adjusting to it. We are really trying to get the girls to load, stride and start the hip rotation regardless of the pitch and if its a good one explode through with the hands. Unfortunately what we are ending up with is rotating too soon and hands lagging behind.

Havent found a good way to get on top of the faster pitchers yet but i love your post. Rather than having the girls try something new, maybe our coaches should try and figure it out first.

 

[johkar]

How to coach it:
At 60 MPH and above the girls have to attack their hitting zone before they see the pitch. They should have a hitting zone that reflects the count (a selective hitting zone with no strikes, an expanded hitting zone with 2 strikes, etc.). Attacking their hitting zone is the challenge. In the 50s they can simply see the pitch and attack it with an aggressive positive move. At 60-70 MPH they must attack the hitting zone prior to seeing the pitch, then if the pitch is in that zone they launch the swing. Attacking the hitting zone means loading the weight back, coiling on an aggressive positive move (stride), and getting the front foot down. Doing all this prior to seeing the pitch appears to me to be the challenge associated with faster pitching. I would think we should be able to practice it with front toss from short distances - using sand balls or from behind a net. The key is to stress them into having to attack the hitting zone before release.

Any other experience or research with the evolution of your hitters from pitching in the 50s to pitching in the 60s?

Steve[/QUOTE]

Great post. Just a question about bold above. It doesn't seem right to me that you would work to get your foot down before the pitcher releases the ball. That seems too early.

 

[Indiana's DH]

That's a good comment and worth discussion. Pat Harrison has a relevant piece for us that has been posted a couple times recently and shows up as "you time to arm to stride and you time the ball to swing":

Hitting: Timing and Getting the Front Foot Down - YouTube

Start at 4:30 and freeze at 4:35 and you'll see the batter's stride working against the pitcher's arm motion, with the front foot down just prior to release at 4:35.

Now, that said, Pat also spends the first 3 minutes of the piece telling us that a mechanical stride and a foot down too early disrupts timing and prevents consistent success. He tells a story about Tony Gwynn that implies that the front foot down when the ball is halfway to the plate can also be too early. ???

I think the best answer to your comment is Pat's bit about being mechanical vs being fluid. We want to train the girls to be fluid with their stride and swing. To me, using the cue "you time to arm to stride and you time the ball to swing" leads naturally to the front foot getting down at release. But be sure that it is the ball of the front foot getting down at release, the front heel shouldn't drop until the swing is launched. I certainly agree that a front heel drop at release will lead to a start/stop mechanical swing - sure disaster against fast pitching. See what you think of this progression for an approximately 60 MPH softball pitch (this is off the top of my head so check me and correct if some times are way off base):

Pitcher starts her motion rocking back off the rubber (-1.5 seconds to release)
Batter loads back in a linear fashion, shifting weight from 50/50 to more like 60/40

Pitcher raises the ball to 12 o'clock high (-.5 seconds to release)
Batter begins a positive move with her stride, coiling hips and hands as the front foot moves out

Pitcher releases ball (0)
Batter strides to balance with ball/big toe of front foot at toe touch and maximum separation of hands/front foot
Batter is the most coiled at this point in the sequence and is ready to start uncoiling as the pitch approaches

Ball travels half way to contact (+.22 seconds)
Batter reads pitch, recognizes ball/strike and fastball/off-speed, hips fire, front heel drops, top hand starts pivot of barrel
Note that even if the pitch is recognized as outside the hitting zone, some or all of the above may still occur prior to stopping the sequence. Indeed, it is conceivable that the hips could start uncoiling almost immediately following toe touch/release to be fluid. This is worth some additional research into slo-mo video. How many hitters show uncoiling of the hips on every pitch?

Contact (+.44 seconds)
Hips have fully opened, weight transfer is occurring into contact, hands complete pivot of barrel into contact

 

[SCDad]

Shorten the swing. Shorten the swing, and again, shorten the swing.

This is where I differ from almost all hitting coaches on this board who focus on the "load" the "stride" the "follow thru" and a bunch of extra words that in my mind only mean a longer swing.

My DD played baseball and saw 65 mph at 46 feet when 12 years old. Every softball hitting coach who saw her after that. All they wanted to do was increase "something". Extra time for extra power.

I knew better. Would not let them do it. Would not pay to let them do it. Sure DD struggled at 50 mph when 13 at softball. Now in high school, and 18U/16U ball, the softball has caught up to what she saw when 12.

Shorten the swing. Lift weights. get the hips to pop. Only then can you decide to swing when you should. Even now, she check swings a lot, because she has to anticipate.

My biggest argument with any Umpire these days is for them to call a strike on a check swing by my DD. Her check is true. They do not see a strike, but just call a check strike, and I have to jump on them and make sure it is "double checked" down the line by the assisting umpire.

 

[Indiana's DH]

Research update: I've been watching the Oklahoma vs Alabama game and am replaying the swings and the takes in slow motion. What I am seeing is a coiling of the hips on the stride, and then an uncoiling of the hips into toe touch or right at toe touch, on every pitch. This may be a crucial aspect of the 'hitting fast pitching puzzle' that I've been seeking. With some hitters the uncoiling on every pitch is easy to see and you don't even need to replay in slo-mo. With others, the uncoiling is more subtle but it is always there. This is consistent with SCDad's check swing comment. There is a check swing, at some level, on every pitch. The exception is when they have a take sign (saw one at a 3-0 count). With the take sign on, they still load back linearly, but you can immediately see a difference in the hip action. Very interesting.

So - we have a college exposure tourney this weekend where we'll face a steady diet of 59-60 mph pitching. My coaching point will be to attack the hitting zone with the hips firing at toe touch on every pitch. Likewise, the hands should be attacking the hitting zone with a start of the barrel turn on every pitch. The hip firing and barrel turning should look something like a tiny check swing (as a minimum) on every pitch because those actions need to start before reading the pitch. We have a hitting only practice session Friday night, then 6 games over the weekend to try out these coaching points and report back to the board...

 

[mann]

Research update: I've been watching the Oklahoma vs Alabama game and am replaying the swings and the takes in slow motion. What I am seeing is a coiling of the hips on the stride, and then an uncoiling of the hips into toe touch or right at toe touch, on every pitch. This may be a crucial aspect of the 'hitting fast pitching puzzle' that I've been seeking. With some hitters the uncoiling on every pitch is easy to see and you don't even need to replay in slo-mo. With others, the uncoiling is more subtle but it is always there. This is consistent with SCDad's check swing comment. There is a check swing, at some level, on every pitch. The exception is when they have a take sign (saw one at a 3-0 count). With the take sign on, they still load back linearly, but you can immediately see a difference in the hip action. Very interesting.

So - we have a college exposure tourney this weekend where we'll face a steady diet of 59-60 mph pitching. My coaching point will be to attack the hitting zone with the hips firing at toe touch on every pitch. Likewise, the hands should be attacking the hitting zone with a start of the barrel turn on every pitch. The hip firing and barrel turning should look something like a tiny check swing (as a minimum) on every pitch because those actions need to start before reading the pitch. We have a hitting only practice session Friday night, then 6 games over the weekend to try out these coaching points and report back to the board...

You are getting close to your answer IDH.
SCdad, you are on the wrong course, no offence ment please. but a short swing has nothing to do with pre swing movements, because its what happens before the barrel moves towards ball, that conquers fast pitching.

This is a fast pitch take drill, and will result in a short fast swing, and one I use in practice, with the machine set on 70, at 2/3 distance.

The ball comes out the machine at about 62mph, and at this speed the dimple balls will cause some big recoil problems, and make sure you use an older bat, as not to ruin your good bats.

These balls will also cause deflection of the bat, because of the recoil, so you can really tell if the girls get squared up or not.

I have to go to work, but I would love to talk to more about this later IDH.
take it this far EVERY TIME.

I worked on speed training with one of my girls this who made all league and is playing at the ducks stadium on Sunday, and will face heat