Question about types of release...

[Glipski]

I've noticed that there seems to be a few different types of releases that pitchers make, say a "peel" type or roll over the top type...my DD has been regularly taught by PC to bring her fingers/arm straight up towards her shoulder on release of a fastball to get a lot of spin on the ball.(maybe this is the "peel" release?) I'm a little worried because occasionally during a game she seems to get in the zone and really start bringing it and when this happens, I notice that she never uses the fingers/hand towards the shoulder movement. It looks like her fingers are sort of flipping or rolling over just after the ball is gone and her hand is more out front. Which release is best and how should I insure that she's doing it the best way?

Thanks, and sorry for the long question

 

[sluggers]

Boardmember is the guy who deserves the credit for this. I'm a convert. I thought the peel was correct until he explained it.

All you really have to do understand the proper release is to look at a golf swing. What path does the arm take with a golf swing? Golfers have been working on this for a hundred years. There is a lot of money riding on each swing--millions of dollars. Does Tiger Woods finish with his fingers pointing to the sky? No, he doesn't. His right hand rolls over, every club from a sand wedge to a driver. This is referred to as "internal rotation".

If you want another example, look at a baseball pitcher's release of a fastball. The thumb rotates down, and the palm of the hand end ups is facing 3B. Why? Because this rotation allows the pitcher to use the large forearm muscles.

So, for underhanded pitching, at release the thumb rotates up and over, so the palm ends up facing 1B.

When I taught my DD, I didn't know any of this. For a while, I tried to make her do the peel release. But, I noticed when she was pitching well, I noticed that she wasn't doing the peel release. Rather than fighting it, I finally quit trying to make her throw the ball "correctly". So, one of the smartest things I ever did as a "Crazy Dad" was to shut up.

 

[Glipski]

Thanks Sluggers. I actually noticed that you referred to it as internal rotation, so I did a search and a bit of reading. Watched the videos posted by Boardmember and now feel like a heel. The Ueno video is EXACTLY how my daughter used to pitch her fastball. Her pitching coaches have all forced her to the "bowling" type of release and even have me reinforcing it to her when we practice at home. I showed the videos to my wife (the BOSS) and she was floored as well. DD turned 11 last month and her average pitching speed at last practice ,with coach was 47mph with 4 of 10 pitches being 49mph. I have to wonder how she'd be doing if we had resisted the change to the new type of release. She almost never does the "natural" one now, unless she's actually pitching in a game and doesn't stop to think about what she's doing. As of right now, we're stopping with the bowling ball release. I need to find a few drills for her to work on to try and get her back in the groove. Any ideas? Video links to watch, maybe? Thanks for your time

 

[Mike]

The good thing is your daughter seems to be doing it right at full speed despite poor instruction. My daughter is currently in the same boat. She has been taught to practice the bowling technique while warming up, it has been a hard habit to break (still working on it). Luckily she internally rotates naturally when she is at full speed. After reading Boardmembers posts I searched for a pitching coach that understands internal rotation. Its a longer drive every week but well worth it. Its amazing how many coaches out there are to stubborn to let go of old practices. Good luck. Read the internal rotation thread like a hundred times.

Mike

 

[Glipski]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Mike:
We actually practiced a couple nights ago and I told her to stop with the arm rollup and elbow pointing to the plate thing and just do it the way it feels right for a few reps. It took a few pitches, but she actually fell right back into the groove of letting her hand rotate naturally and looked much better to my untrained eye. Tomorrow with pitching coach will tell the tale, though...to be continued

 

[ifubuildit]

Please explain to me.

How can the hand roll over if your throwing a screw ball? Or a Rise ball? You guys make it sound like this should happen on every pitch.

Dana.

 

[Glipski]

I really only see the roll motion on the fastball, sometimes the screwball and she doesn't throw a rise just yet so not sure about that one. She steps out and throws and in to out arc for her screwball so in all honesty, I've never really analyzed the release. I'm the least knowledgeable on this board about how a pitch "should" look, especially about the internal rotation thing. Hopefully the guru of this school of thought will chime in and respond to your point.

 

[Mike]

ifubuildit Please explain to me.

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How can the hand roll over if your throwing a screw ball? Or a Rise ball? You guys make it sound like this should happen on every pitch.

Dana.

I'm not sure what you mean? All I am comparing is a natural arm motion versus getting your hand on top of the ball and bowling it through. After release the arm should go wherever the momentum sends it I guess. My daughter wont be learning those pitches for awhile so I don't know yet.

Mike

 

[Ken Krause]

I wish I knew where that "touch the shoulder" thing came from. Not only does it hurt the pitch, it can also hurt the pitcher's elbow by over-stretching the tendons in the elbow. It's bad for you on a couple of levels.

The release should be long and loose. I don't believe everyone is going to wind up the same way, even on a fastball. As with anything else, there isn't one right, but there are some wrongs.

Dana is right. The hand is going to wind up in different positions depending on which pitch is being thrown. The internal rotation will occur on all pitches (except the backhand change), but the finish will be different.

A good way to practice getting to that position when you don't have space to throw is to place the palm of your hand against a wall, shoulder high or so. Start moving through the circle, and keep the palm against the wall until you feel a natural turn toward the bottom. e sure to keep the arm relaxed and lead the elbow. It's simple, precise, and gives instant feedback. I've been using this for a few years and has worked pretty well.

 

[jimginas]

KenKrause: I use that same drill, though I've had the pitcher keep a ball in her hand, palm to the wall with the ball touching the wall. She does SLOW arm circles to learn what her NATURAL arm circle should feel like.

Ref the touching the shoulder (and I know you know this, but for benefit of those reading that don't): I don't like it because of EXACTLY the issues discussed here.... THOUGH I used to use it every once in a while to correct Corkscrew rotation. I used to tell them AFTER release, touch your shoulder with your fingers to make sure her rotation didn't cork screw / kep her wrist straight on release. ** Issue is they obviously have to know that changeups and breaking balls wrist will be different so, this is ONLY intended to work the wrist at release of the fastball.
------ So, the question is, what is a better drill to alleviate the corscrew on release.