Lot's of good info above. I have coached girls softball for 12 years at all levels. You will find out the worse coach is the male coach that coaches high school football and has no idea how to motivate a female. Most have a bunch of kids that end up crying on the bench. At 16U the teams start to thin out. This is what college coaches tell me , they do not want to see you play against weak teams. They want kids to play and handle tough teams. Why they dislike stats. My dd at 14 played on a 16U team , that is what they want to see. In Nationals a coach told me the worse thing she heard was I still have one more year left at 16U so I'm going to stay at 16U.
Playing Down....need some help.
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No, you didn't make it up. You are repeating what some else made up.
What you say, of course, has no support in any psychological studies. But, hey, why not pretend?
Totally ignorant.
So, on Friday night here in Texas, I can to any local high school and I can see 60 to 75 boys wearing *EXACTLY* the same uniform doing *EXACTLY* the same warm up drills. Except for perhaps 15 of those boys, then they go stand on the sidelines. Surprise! Boys love to "fit in" just like girls do.
My wife and I like to go to a place where there are many kids, generally around 14 YOA or 15YOA. The boys have little groups, and the boys within that group dress the same. Girls do the same.
Anyway, if anyone wants to actually *UNDERSTAND* gender and competitiveness, here are some articles:
Girls are as competitive as boys--boys tend to use physical aggression to compete, girls tend to use group interaction (i.e., cliques) to compete.
Competition is a double-edged sword for teenage girls Boys like "competing to win" more than girls. Boys and girls like "competing to excel".
Interesting study...preschool male and females wanted to compete equally. In one-on-one tournaments, the boys were better *INITIALLY*. As soon as the girls understood how one-on-one tournaments worked, they did just as well as the boys.
And, of course, there is the WNBA and WPFL here in the US. And, then there are all those thousands of women playing college sports.
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- Dec 7, 2011
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Prior to reading SLuggers articles I have to admit Starsnuffer that I believe the results you note are strongly because of nurture. I believe our society drives girls to exhibit "girl" behavior equally to any forces of nature.
My DD many times freaks people out when they see this girly-girl looking young lady get into her uniform and play like she belongs on the national team. This girly-girl will stomp her foot on your jugular in competition with the most roided-up male "studs". Why?... because of the nurturing she got in her upbringing competing always with her older brothers and always wanting to beat her way-too-competitive dad....
My DD many times freaks people out when they see this girly-girl looking young lady get into her uniform and play like she belongs on the national team. This girly-girl will stomp her foot on your jugular in competition with the most roided-up male "studs". Why?... because of the nurturing she got in her upbringing competing always with her older brothers and always wanting to beat her way-too-competitive dad....
- Dec 7, 2011
- 2,365
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OK - after reading the shorter first two articles from Sluggers one thing I can really relate to:
DD and her bestie at their HS have been ostracised for the most part from other girls at HS I bet EXACTLY for the reason stated. Girls complete by exclusion - EXACTLY! (that's what DD has been telling DW all the time....). My DD & her bestie have the stuffed animal called high-end-sport-competitiveness-behaviors and the rest have done their defined role here.
Funny - also in their HS they have effectively scared most all other boys off with their non-girly behaviors (cool in one way for we parents!) But then at the same time they have found that meeting other boys from other HS's gets them way too many requests for dates.
There has got to be a really interestng social study brewing here....
DD and her bestie at their HS have been ostracised for the most part from other girls at HS I bet EXACTLY for the reason stated. Girls complete by exclusion - EXACTLY! (that's what DD has been telling DW all the time....). My DD & her bestie have the stuffed animal called high-end-sport-competitiveness-behaviors and the rest have done their defined role here.
Funny - also in their HS they have effectively scared most all other boys off with their non-girly behaviors (cool in one way for we parents!) But then at the same time they have found that meeting other boys from other HS's gets them way too many requests for dates.
There has got to be a really interestng social study brewing here....
- Jul 26, 2010
- 3,553
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None of the articles you posted, Ray, refuted anything that I said, in fact, they re-enforced it.
I never stated that girls cannot and do not compete as well as boys. I only stated that that there were implications tied to such behavior, and that because the OP was trying to change the default behavior of their child (which is to fit in, not to stand out, from what I read in the original post), they should be aware of the implications.
One of the first things that the male coach needs to learn, when coaching young girls, is that they do not like to be singled out for attention. When a coach of an all girl team points to a kid and says, "Sally, you did a really great job hitting that ball. We should all hit as well as Sally did", it has a completely different social implication then if the coach did the same thing to Johnny on the all boys team. Since the male coach was once a boy, we loved being singled out in front of the team and praised. While this put more pressure on us from Jack and Pete who wanted to kick our butt, this was overshadowed by being able to go home and tell Dad about what coach said.
I can see that how in this age of gender-role diversity, reversal, and absence in parenting, how perhaps using "male and female" is a really bad way to put things. I guess it isn't so much about genetics and more about environment and culture like RubberBiscuit said.
It isn't that the kid in the original post doesn't know how to compete or isn't capable of competing, she just isn't MOTIVATED to complete. The question here is to figure out why. My suggestion is that she is more motivated by here desire to fit in, make friends, and excel socially then she is to compete.
Since we're linking stuff that we didn't write, here you go:
CoachesInfo.com - information and education for coaches - Should boys & girls be coached the same way?
This is why it's so important to find the "right" team for any given kid. If the kid is competitive, then they do so much better when on a team full of other competitive kids because the social situation is completely different. Competing to be the best is very much accepted and expected on better teams.
-W
I never stated that girls cannot and do not compete as well as boys. I only stated that that there were implications tied to such behavior, and that because the OP was trying to change the default behavior of their child (which is to fit in, not to stand out, from what I read in the original post), they should be aware of the implications.
One of the first things that the male coach needs to learn, when coaching young girls, is that they do not like to be singled out for attention. When a coach of an all girl team points to a kid and says, "Sally, you did a really great job hitting that ball. We should all hit as well as Sally did", it has a completely different social implication then if the coach did the same thing to Johnny on the all boys team. Since the male coach was once a boy, we loved being singled out in front of the team and praised. While this put more pressure on us from Jack and Pete who wanted to kick our butt, this was overshadowed by being able to go home and tell Dad about what coach said.
I can see that how in this age of gender-role diversity, reversal, and absence in parenting, how perhaps using "male and female" is a really bad way to put things. I guess it isn't so much about genetics and more about environment and culture like RubberBiscuit said.
It isn't that the kid in the original post doesn't know how to compete or isn't capable of competing, she just isn't MOTIVATED to complete. The question here is to figure out why. My suggestion is that she is more motivated by here desire to fit in, make friends, and excel socially then she is to compete.
Since we're linking stuff that we didn't write, here you go:
CoachesInfo.com - information and education for coaches - Should boys & girls be coached the same way?
This is why it's so important to find the "right" team for any given kid. If the kid is competitive, then they do so much better when on a team full of other competitive kids because the social situation is completely different. Competing to be the best is very much accepted and expected on better teams.
-W
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My player likes male coaches almost exclusively. Take it for what it is worth.
Sounds like Mom is the Alpha Female in the house. Your DD was tight ... it happens.
My DD likes being the Alpha Female (no Mom, she passed away). Alpha Males (male coaches) ... really like her, it works, it is nature, my Alpha Female DD responds to them. The Alpha Males (coaches) let my DD "think" she is in charge. When it is the opposite.
Alpha Females are a problem for my DD (female coaches). The rest spoken here is social-logical things. Don't know, don't care. Too many words.
Mom's are always the Alpha Females, and do not understand how important it is to encourage (take the back seat) to allow their DD being the Alpha Female. Men know instinctively.
I don't cry when my DD does bad. There is NO crying in softball. What is that ?... oh ... Alpha Female Mom.
IT IS MOM's FAULT !!!!
Sounds like Mom is the Alpha Female in the house. Your DD was tight ... it happens.
My DD likes being the Alpha Female (no Mom, she passed away). Alpha Males (male coaches) ... really like her, it works, it is nature, my Alpha Female DD responds to them. The Alpha Males (coaches) let my DD "think" she is in charge. When it is the opposite.
Alpha Females are a problem for my DD (female coaches). The rest spoken here is social-logical things. Don't know, don't care. Too many words.
Mom's are always the Alpha Females, and do not understand how important it is to encourage (take the back seat) to allow their DD being the Alpha Female. Men know instinctively.
I don't cry when my DD does bad. There is NO crying in softball. What is that ?... oh ... Alpha Female Mom.
IT IS MOM's FAULT !!!!
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I think starsnuffer's info makes perfect sense. That's why tall girls, when they are younger stoop. Thanks for the responses. Follow up, today when I told her that she owes the coach and herself the best effort she has and then asked why she didn't give it. Her response, "Nobody else tries hard and they all laugh when they make mistakes." Do you want play ball in college like your sister? "Yes sir". Why? "Because I love the game". Ended with me saying , if you love be true to it, and play it like it is supposed to be played. Anyway, 1 day at a time and thanks for all responses, keep em coming.
I have enjoyed this thread. Well timed for some of what I have been dealing with. This has offered some good insight into things I should consider before reacting. Thanks.
- Jun 24, 2013
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I guess it is more fun for her on her school team in a less stressful atmosphere. Think of it from her perspective, she gets to have all of the fun of a sport she loves, without the pressure of winning. Perhaps you could take the angle that she can still have fun and help those girls get better by playing her best. Tell her that you are confident that she is smart enough to figure out how to do both. Tell her that she would not be showing off, but showing skills that the other girls need to learn. I have taught many an 8U girl how to throw and have kept it fun. Which is what she looks like she is using the school ball for. Sounds like you are headed on the right track.
- Aug 20, 2013
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I agree with mustang. If she plays well on the tougher team and its not bringing her down, shouldn't she be allowed to have fun. I think if she wants to play both that is showing that she isn't burning out. I was asked this on another thread and was put off, but the poster was right. "What does she want to do?" At the end of the day, we have to think about these girls minds as well. I feel like a lot of people are all thinking scholarships and is that realistic? I know I am not thinking that, but I am still pushing too hard, and am trying to figure out why.
Best of luck to you!
Best of luck to you!
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