Player Turnover - Another Season is the Books

[quincy]

Last game was yesterday in 12U Rec. Fall ball. DD had a great time this fall and is hoping to have the same coach(s) in the spring.

One of the sad things is ½ the Team will disappear somewhere. Stop playing softball, move to different Teams for different reasons, etc. Of course the good side is you get to meet new players.

I would guess the turnover rate season to season is 40% - 60%.

I was curious what TB and other Rec. people would estimate their turnover rate year to year. Does your DD have a specific group of players she is growing up with?

 

[CoogansBluff]

This is my fourth TB team ...

Return rate -

2009: First team
2010: 5/10 back
2011: 4/12 back
2012: 4/11 back

So that's right at 40 percent. There are only 3 'original' players left.

In our rec league, I'd guess 60-70 percent return from spring to spring, but many won't play in the fall.

 

[marriard]

We work hard on player retainment in our rec league. In the younger divisions (up to second year 10U) we have a great deal of success (well over 80% - aiming for 90% this year although that may be unrealistic).

Once the girls hit high school then the numbers drop way off due to HS Softball and other commitments. I don't actually mind - if we have players 'graduating' to full time travel in 12U or making their High School teams then in my mind our rec league has been successful in helping developing players to this point (even if it is in a different sport). And for the ones that don't - well we still provide them a great place to play Softball and that is great as well.

Too many rec leagues worry about TB 'stealing' players like they have some sort of bizarre ownership of some girl just because she played in your league. We don't - we concentrate on running a solid, well organized league that is well coached and continues to grow in reputation locally. That brings in the families and the players both new and old and keeps numbers off.

(We draft new teams each year so there is not a specific group of players they play with however as there is so many of the same players in the league they all know each other and many of them play on the locally based travel team as well)

 

[quincy]

Too many rec leagues worry about TB 'stealing' players like they have some sort of bizarre ownership of some girl just because she played in your league. We don't - we concentrate on running a solid, well organized league that is well coached

That is one of my pet peeves, with 1 commissioner specially. They hate TB, don’t know that they are thinking.

They should: Honestly wish the player and family good luck, if it does not work out please come back, we are going to miss her.

They do: You are making a mistake, have fun with the rest of your life

I think our League does have a good retention rate, it just players get shuffled around to different Teams for various reasons. We like our current Manager, I know a couple parents that do not. They will stay in our League but be on a different Team.

 

[Momo'sDad]

We work hard on player retainment in our rec league. In the younger divisions (up to second year 10U) we have a great deal of success (well over 80% - aiming for 90% this year although that may be unrealistic).

Even in a tough economy, we've been growing steadily the past few years. We grew about 10% overall coming into this past spring and we're optimistic about having a similar growth rate going into spring 2012. Our winterball program increased from 4 teams in 2010 to 5 teams in 2011, and we'll be doing more to hopefully expand that number for next year. Getting more girls involved in the fall has them and their parents really excited about signing up for spring rec. None of my current roster will be going to full-time TB yet. By getting the winterball info out earlier next year, we could potentially get to 6-7 teams for next fall.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Too many rec leagues worry about TB 'stealing' players like they have some sort of bizarre ownership of some girl just because she played in your league. We don't - we concentrate on running a solid, well organized league that is well coached and continues to grow in reputation locally.

When talking to the parents who are dedicated to our league, there is no feeling that TB is 'stealing' the best talent, but I do know the sentiment you're describing. We live in a region that has a lot of 10u daddyball start-ups each year, many of which will flame out, of course. I'm not saying that every good player must stay in rec her entire childhood. What I am saying, though, is that rec leagues would be better if MORE of the better players stayed in for at least 1 season or 2 of 10u softball. A stronger rec league would more likely produce stronger future TB players. That extra 1-2 years of developmental ball is such a benefit to the majority of players that yes, I do encourage it.

A high-profile analog would be the basketball players who play 3-4 years before going to the NBA vs those who've gone directly from HS or who play only 1-2 years before entering the draft. Without question, those who play more college ball end up having more success and sooner in the NBA than those with less college experience.

For some reason, this was an especially difficult year with out-of-control parents and coaches in 8u around NorCal. I can only address the coaches and parents in our local league, but I hope that other leagues will be more proactive in squashing the drama before it turns more parents off to softball. The players don't seem to care, but they aren't blind. Parents going after teen umpires is ridiculous. Treating 8u softball as life and death is ridiculous. That's one reason why lots of parents will quietly or not-so-quietly leave rec 'early'. They don't like the ignorance that some other parents bring to the ballpark. Can't blame them for leaving, really.

We had a largely drama-free season in 10u and I think it had a lot to do with the coaches. Not patting myself on the back, but I believe the coaches set the tone and made sure the parents weren't harassing umpires. Most of the 10u families want to come back in spring.

There hasn't been much drama this fall either, because I don't entertain it. My team, my rules. If all my current players aren't playing in spring, I'd be surprised. It's been a really good season for our girls.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Our rec leave has had quite a few defections to travel ball the past few years and it has hurt our organation and the quality of of our rec league.

I understand some girls really want the year round travel ball experenice but what has hurt us most is coaches leaving after getting a whole all-star team together through our rec league program for summer travel and then taking nearly the whole group (or nearly all of it) to an independent year round travel team in the fall.

So it isn't so much losing a few of the best players each year to travel programs which would be understandable, it's losing the top 12 players as a group from the age bracket along with a collection of 2-3 coaches that were with that group of kids stings.

 

[Axe]

We have had a lot of success in building up the 8U program over the last few years. Even with some turnover it leads to much better numbers for 10U and increased quality of play at all levels. Because of this, our level of play now exceeds neighboring parks to the extent that better players are leaving those rec programs to join ours. Its a very virtuous cycle.

We also have strong historic ties to the TB program which is fed primarily by our park. They represent "us" and we take pride in seeing the kids who we used to coach in 8U succeed in TB.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Our rec leave has had quite a few defections to travel ball the past few years and it has hurt our organation and the quality of of our rec league.

I understand some girls really want the year round travel ball experenice but what has hurt us most is coaches leaving after getting a whole all-star team together through our rec league program for summer travel and then taking nearly the whole group (or nearly all of it) to an independent year round travel team in the fall.

So it isn't so much losing a few of the best players each year to travel programs which would be understandable, it's losing the top 12 players as a group from the age bracket along with a collection of 2-3 coaches that were with that group of kids stings.

I know what you're saying, and the smaller leagues really take a hit when a core of 5-6 players leave suddenly. It makes it tough to be competitive enough in All-Stars the following summer for all the girls to have fun. One of the things I intend to propose to NorCal is that we allow girls to play up in spring rec, but then be allowed to play in their age group for All-Stars. That could dissuade many players from leaving the rec programs as early as they do. I've heard parents say they don't want to have to endure a long spring season of 10u or 12u just to get to All-Stars and winterball, which they do enjoy.

Our current players and their families have been very supportive of the team this fall, but I'm not putting anyone down when I say that not a single one of them is ready for an 'A' 10u team, not even my DD. Everyone can do what they want, but I am gently encouraging them to play at least 1 more season of winterball, which for us, is entry-level TB.

 

[Ivy's Dad]

Last season, there were 12 girls on my DD's travel ball team. Six of the girls stayed with the team (my DD did not stay), and the team picked up 4 new girls for a total of 10. I'm hoping it will be a better experience this season for the girls who stayed since there are only 10 girls now. The head coach has no idea how to substitute players, so a team of 9 would probably be best for him.