Pitching - Where to start?

[radness]

The proof is always in the results.

A drill is only as good as the intent of the drill do-er.
Meaning the “drill” works on whatever the do-er is intending it to work on (what their mental focus is on).

Yes! Understanding application important. To add to that without communicating with said player
Or knowing the individuals development stage and their own individual ability to understand what they're doing...
Leaves a gap between the person watching (or on this forum could be it's interpreting the unknown)
SO... Discerning drills ability to form/function, to be helpful, might just be a guess at best.

In my experience a lot of kids, especially younger kids, have no focus whatsoever when they are doing the wrist snaps or t-drills. They are just going through the motions.

This is a good point however there are some players that have really good ability to think and apply even at Young ages.
So for that I would not throw all players into the same basket.

That said,
Good coaches, instructors and parents can interpret the finer abilities of the player and be able to teach players with specific communications/drills toward their individual needs.
( Not cookie cutter approach)

 

[pattar]

For every drill out there are going to be good players who used them. If you take the viewpoint that a drill is useful if a successful player used it then there is no such thing as a bad drill which is fine I guess..

Likewise for every drill out there are going to be bad players who used them..hence with the aforementioned reasoning there is not such thing as a good drill either...

 

[Rolling Hard]

Hitting yourself in the back with your bat during practice swings probably does very little mechanic wise to help the batter hit once they are in the box BUT I see it all the time. I don't like it but I am not going to tell a .438 hitter to stop doing it.

 

[pattar]

Hitting yourself in the back with your bat during practice swings probably does very little mechanic wise to help the batter hit once they are in the box BUT I see it all the time. I don't like it but I am not going to tell a .438 hitter to stop doing it.

Sure but the thread title is "Where to start.."

 

[CoachJD]

I posted about my highly successful daughter uses wrist snaps and it has helped her. That's the bottom line. The fact you are unable to grasp this makes a point of its own. Your disagreeing with it is irrelevant.

You said something. You did nothing to prove it's true. Forgive me for trusting the many dozens of pitching experts over you and your one anecdote that has literally zero evidence to support it. Correlation is not causation.

Did eating fried chicken make Wade Boggs better at baseball? Because that's about as useful from a physical/mechanical standpoint as doing a wrist snap.

 

[CoachJD]

Hitting yourself in the back with your bat during practice swings probably does very little mechanic wise to help the batter hit once they are in the box BUT I see it all the time. I don't like it but I am not going to tell a .438 hitter to stop doing it.

I don't see how that actually can make a hitter worse though. Wrist snaps actually work counter to what a pitcher should be doing when she pitches. I think that's the difference.

 

[YOCOACH]

You said something. You did nothing to prove it's true. Forgive me for trusting the many dozens of pitching experts over you and your one anecdote that has literally zero evidence to support it. Correlation is not causation.

Did eating fried chicken make Wade Boggs better at baseball? Because that's about as useful from a physical/mechanical standpoint as doing a wrist snap.

For every rule. there's an exception. Just because Jenny Finch sill teaches HE Doesn't mean she pitches that way. Many who learned a particular way but do things much differently aren't always wrong. That's just all they know to teach since many won't continue to learn what they were able to accomplish by studying their own mechanics to see that their athleticism was able to transcend the poor mechanics they were taught.

If a silly drill, whether what we, and many of our experts, consider right or wrong, helps some athletes, so be it. If nothing else, it gives them a sense of security doing those drills and calms their minds to settle into a rythm whether pitching, hitting or catching. Others might call them superstitions.

 

[CoachJD]

Many who learned a particular way but do things much differently aren't always wrong.

If a silly drill, whether what we, and many of our experts, consider right or wrong, helps some athletes, so be it. If nothing else, it gives them a sense of security doing those drills and calms their minds to settle into a rythm whether pitching, hitting or catching. Others might call them superstitions.

Doing things differently isn't always wrong, but doing things wrong is always wrong. And wrist naps are, objectively, wrong. That's not how you pitch.

My argument is that it actually cannot possibly help any athletes from a physical/mechanical standpoint. It just doesn't. I already acknowledged that maybe it helps as some kind of routine. You know, like eating fried chicken. And yes, it is superstition. That's my point. If it helped at all, it helped in the way that doing something familiar and comfortable can put a player in the right mindset. It didn't actually help with the physical aspect of pitching a ball.

 

[YOCOACH]

Doing things differently isn't always wrong, but doing things wrong is always wrong. And wrist naps are, objectively, wrong. That's not how you pitch.

My argument is that it actually cannot possibly help any athletes from a physical/mechanical standpoint. It just doesn't. I already acknowledged that maybe it helps as some kind of routine. You know, like eating fried chicken. And yes, it is superstition. That's my point. If it helped at all, it helped in the way that doing something familiar and comfortable can put a player in the right mindset. It didn't actually help with the physical aspect of pitching a ball.

I got your point/points. Yes you acknowledged all of that. However, you didn't acknowledge my point of even the best athletes in any aspect of the game teaching poor mechanics because that's all they know and refuse to study what they actually do versus what was taught them; i.e. their athleticism surpassing the poor mechanics they were taught. Wrong is wrong for many reasons. But sometimes wrong can be right for certain athletes. There are always exceptions to every "rule" as has been proven by the numerous pitchers that have surpassed the HE taught method of pitching over the past 30+ years to pitch for top P5 teams.

I'm an advocate of teaching correct mechanics in every aspect of the game from the beginning just as you are. But not every "bad" drill is bad as long as the student and parent understand what is trying to be taught by that "bad" drill. This also means that I don't like wrist snaps but if what their PC is teaching them is I/R, but includes wrist snaps as part of thier warm-ups, I'm not going to argue.

 

[radness]

Hmmm following the thread here...
JD hasn't proved anything other than not liking something. At least Bullseye has the hands-on experience following his daughter's growth to her success

I do wrist snap drills for players throwing overhand and it helps. And I have worked with many pitchers who do wrist snaps and I can see how they don't always do them the same as each other.
How they are standing and what they are doing with their arm as well.


Seems it's a bit overstepping to say about a player, (in particular about a player they haven't even met) that working on a drill that breaks down a part of mechanics doesn't work, especially telling someone else it hasn't helped their daughter.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it won't help someone else. For that matter somebody else might be able to help another learn how to use a drill better. Certainly not all pitchers use their arm in the same way with their hand. Being the wrist is in between those two points...
Can imagine some people might need a drill like this more than others.
*Because drills can help identify body movement.

The forearm, radius and ulnar bones working in conjunction with the TFCC joint to actuate hand motion is a complex region that works together.