Pitching Parent Hypothetical

[MightyMO]

Between DD's games this last weekend I found myself watching other teams play with another bucket dad. One of those games was between a very good team and a not so great team. This led to a discussion between the two of us and I thought I'd post the subject here and see what everyone's thoughts were. So here it is.

At the 10U level would a pitcher be better served playing on a "bad" team and getting all of the circle time she can handle or playing on a "good" team and only getting a few innings a weekend? I know that circle time is the best thing for a pitcher but do you stunt her growth as a softball player if she isn't playing with girls who push her to get better and she never gets to win games?

 

[SoCalASABlue]

DD has been in this situation. It's all about reps. Losing because of errors sucks - but it happens on college teams too.

Reps, reps, reps. JMHO.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

This is a common trade-off that many pitchers have to face.

Often their 'pitching ability' (and desire to pitch), factors into the development of the rest of their softball skills.

Make no mistake about it ... if you play at a lower level of ball for the purpose of obtaining more circle time, then the development your other softball skills (e.g., hitting, fielding, base-running, etc.) will be less.

 

[RetiredCoach]

As for pitching, you are best off with the pitching time.

I do agree that the other skills usually suffer due to so much pitching time.

 

[JAD]

At the 10U level would a pitcher be better served playing on a "bad" team and getting all of the circle time she can handle or playing on a "good" team and only getting a few innings a weekend? I know that circle time is the best thing for a pitcher but do you stunt her growth as a softball player if she isn't playing with girls who push her to get better and she never gets to win games?

I am a big advocate of a pitcher getting on the best team she can and still be the #1 or #2 pitcher. It is also more important that a pitcher face good competition vs. being on a good team. She can play on the softball equivalent of the "Bad News Bears" as long as she is facing good hitters on the opposition. A lot of 10U and 12U coaches seem to be more concerned with winning vs. playing to get better, so avoid teams who brag about winning 80+% of their games and bringing home trophies. I would rather be on a team that wins 40-60% of their games by "playing up" against tougher competition. Travel softball is a marathon, not a sprint, so do not worry about being a phenom at 10U.

BTW - I have seen a lot of 10U pitching phenoms who get "lazy" and do not push themselves to master movement pitches because they can blow their fastball by opposing batters. A great 10U fastball becomes a 12U "meatball", especially when the pitcher moves back to 43' and starts throwing a 12" ball.

 

[sluggers]

At the 10U level would a pitcher be better served playing on a "bad" team and getting all of the circle time she can handle or playing on a "good" team and only getting a few innings a weekend?

It depends on what you mean by "getting a few innings a weekend".

If you mean the kid is pitching at least 2 games a weekend on the good team and another game during the week, then she should play on the good team.

If she is pitching less than 7 innings for the entire week for the good team, then she should play for the "bad" team.

I have seen a lot of 10U pitching phenoms who get "lazy" and do not push themselves to master movement pitches because they can blow their fastball by opposing batters.

Jad...your characterization is unfair.

10U pitchers are "good" primarily because they matured earlier. When everyone catches up physically at 12YOA or 13YOA, there is much more competition. Sometimes more work will make up the difference...sometimes it won't.

When DD#3 was 10YOA, there was a girl who could play circles around my DD#3. She was much better at shooting, dribbling...you name it. A few years later, that girl couldn't make the sophomore team, while my DD#3 was starting on varsity. Why? Because my DD#3 worked harder than her and the other girl was lazy? Or because my DD#3 grew to 6'2" and the other girl stopped growing at 5'2"?

Additionally, kids play softball at 10U because their parents tell them to. As soon as they can make their own decisions, a bunch of them stop.

 

[MNDad]

DD didn’t pitch a single inning first year of 10U Rec due to Daddyball coaches. When she finally got to pitch the next season she wasn’t challenged in the least. The best thing that happened to her was moving from the #1 on a 12U B Rec team to #3 on a 14U A travel team. Far better coaching, faced better competition and was in a position where she had to earn circle time.

I feel it's it’s a complete myth that circle time is the best thing for a pitcher. The best thing in our case was a good coach and quality practices.

 

[GoCaboNow]

I am monitoring DD new TB team for this same reason. We tried out and then joined this 10u team because it was a new team being formed in conjunction with her little league organization so she could play rec and get a taste of TB without too much commitment. We had a previous offer from a more full time TB team but they were not very interested in trying her out at pitcher for the two tryouts we went to. We persisted about her pitching interest and she worked out with two of their other pitchers. She was much faster than either but we did not see the other two they have on the team. She still got the nod for her other skills but nothing mentioned about pitching. As we were new to the politics, and ins and outs, of TB we finally figured to check their web site. There we saw scores from last years games (gave up a lot of runs), birth dates were moslty 2004's (DD is late-ish 2005) and that pitcher's last names matched coaching staff's last name.

Seemed like a good group of coaches and kids but we decided it may not be the best match for DD first team. Fast forward a few months and we tryout for the new team that her LL was forming. Most of the kids were from a partnering league that DD had worked out with periodically over the winter, or competed against in previous LL seasons. No pitching tryouts at tryouts, but we made sure to mention efforts she had done over the winter, PC etc. She makes the team and on the second team practice DD asks the coach when she can pitch and is told the team already has SEVEN pitchers. DD is like how can we already have seven pitchers if there has been no tryouts? Mom and dad wondered that too - LOL. Then we get rosters and is being billed as a 2004 team and sure enough average age of the team is exactly one year older than DD, who is the youngest. So, now we are on a "older" team with lots of existing pitchers just like the team we decided not to join. LOL. Turns out the team was basically formed due to Allstars success from previous year and coach new the kids and pitchers from that team. Again, did I mention we were new to this?

Is a really good group of kids and parents. DD likes everyone on the team and she was finally able to get coach to see her pitch and was given two games with 8 innings total at the 2nd tourney of the year, when not getting any circle time the first tourney (B). She pitched well for her first tourney. A couple bad innings but the rest were very good. Even though this is a new team she is still a year or more behind in playing at this level and is learning a lot from her teammates but, for the moment, has at least moved into the mix for pitching - but it is a crowded group. I would imagine the team will go 12u in the fall or next spring due to their age?

She practices alot with a 12" ball, threw 50mph and 15.1 rps with a 12" revfire ball, at 35', her last lesson. We are just monitoring when it is playing up for experience, and development, or limiting her circle time?

 

[JAD]

DD didn’t pitch a single inning first year of 10U Rec due to Daddyball coaches. When she finally got to pitch the next season she wasn’t challenged in the least. The best thing that happened to her was moving from the #1 on a 12U B Rec team to #3 on a 14U A travel team. Far better coaching, faced better competition and was in a position where she had to earn circle time.

I feel it's it’s a complete myth that circle time is the best thing for a pitcher. The best thing in our case was a good coach and quality practices.

Just out of curiosity, what did the "good coach" do to help your DD? My DD's pitching coach is the one who teaks her mechanics. The HC of her TB team has little to no influence on her other than deciding when to put her in the circle.

 

[abbygale]

Pitching is cyclical. When they are young, they need innings. Then they need batters. Then they need innings followed by better batters. Rinse and repeat. Eventually you want innings against the best batters while not having the best of defense. Learning to pitch with your back against the wall is a good life lesson. I think that is the final tweak before you hand them off to their college coach and go kick back. Or maybe I am just saying that because that is where mine is at in the process.

I'll let you know how my theory worked out after next year. Lol