Objective vs subjective stats.

[Scorekeeper]

CoogansBluff,

The only difference I have with what you’re saying is that IMHO, no matter what a coach wants to see, s/he should never start changing the rulebook on his/her own. All that does is cause confusion. What I was trying to say is, if a coach wants to track something differently than the rules call for, all they need to do is track it by the rules under whatever the rules call it or its normally known, then have another column called something else, tracked however s/he wants it tracked.

 

[CoogansBluff]

CoogansBluff,

The only difference I have with what you’re saying is that IMHO, no matter what a coach wants to see, s/he should never start changing the rulebook on his/her own. All that does is cause confusion. What I was trying to say is, if a coach wants to track something differently than the rules call for, all they need to do is track it by the rules under whatever the rules call it or its normally known, then have another column called something else, tracked however s/he wants it tracked.

Makes sense. Can't disagree.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Thanks for the insight and I checked out the links, very cool! And we are neighbors, I am on the Western side of E.G. (Franklin would be the nearest high school). Glad to "meet" you!

Just to give you an idea of what a real game scored using that method looks like, here’s a scoresheet from one of our games from last season.

http://www.infosports.com/scorekeeper/images/7Davis.pdf

It shouldn’t talk a lot of work to figger out what’s going on, although I had to vary a bit from the original standard. It really works well for me when I write the newsletter because it has so much detail. Here’s the newsletter from it. If you read the newsletter and look back at the scoresheet, you’ll see how it works.

http://www.infosports.com/scorekeeper/images/EYE1310.pdf

I’m on the complete other side at PG. Often when I post on boards like this and try to use my experience, it causes problems because there aren’t a whole lot of areas or even school districts like ours. One of the reasons I still look forward to each new season, is because I know its gonna be another knock-down drag-out battle.

Maybe you can give me some insight into what the distaff side of the spring equation’s gonna be in the 2014-15 year when the DVL and DRL combine. Us baseball nuts are doin’ a lot of deep breathing exercises to keep the excitement down. My son and daughter went to Sheldon during the years when Ms. Trusdale had them as national powers every season. To this day I never miss the chance to go get my hug and shoot the breeze about the team. I haven’t talked with her yet about the realignment, but knowing her as I do, my guess is she can’t wait either.

 

[MsDinosaur]

The #1 indicator I have seen of whether your team is good or not is when other teams throw their best pitcher against you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeppers, I agree with this. And if they trot out their "project" pitcher, that's not such a good sign.

 

[Rocketech1]

Scorekeeper -first of all nice job of recording and organizing stats for your team, its a thankless job but important for the coach and player to have access to their team and individual performance.

My question would be how do the "objective stats" stack up to the "subjective stats" in overall performance of the player? For example, are the top hitters on the team (the ones that the coaches recognize as the best hitters) the same ones who rank high on both lists or are there outliers who surprised you when just looking at the objective stats and maybe should be moved up in the line-up or should have more at-bats? Hope that makes sense?

 

[canyonjoe]

Does anyone know if either gamechanger or Iscore lets you put in a class for your opponent?

I.E. A team versus B team or Elite. I would love to have the ability to do a breakout of stats against A teams only. Or maybe a Saturday versus Sunday stat line.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Scorekeeper -first of all nice job of recording and organizing stats for your team, its a thankless job but important for the coach and player to have access to their team and individual performance.

I appreciate the kind words, but believe me, I do it just as much for my own pleasure as anything else. I honestly think the problem with many SKs is they do it because no one else will, they’re out to advance someone for some reason, and don’t really love what they’re doing. When I was a working lad, I wish I had a job I loved as much as I do this one.

My question would be how do the "objective stats" stack up to the "subjective stats" in overall performance of the player? For example, are the top hitters on the team (the ones that the coaches recognize as the best hitters) the same ones who rank high on both lists or are there outliers who surprised you when just looking at the objective stats and maybe should be moved up in the line-up or should have more at-bats? Hope that makes sense?

That’s a tough question because I’ve never tried to look at the objective stats from a performance perspective. To me they’ve just been numbers to look at which were as unbiased as possible. But if I had to say, I’d guess they went pretty much along the same lines as the subjective stats. I’d like to think that’s because I do a pretty good job on all of them though, because the only reason I ever question stats is because I don’t trust the scorer or how consistent they are.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Does anyone know if either gamechanger or Iscore lets you put in a class for your opponent?

I.E. A team versus B team or Elite. I would love to have the ability to do a breakout of stats against A teams only. Or maybe a Saturday versus Sunday stat line.

Here’s a couple “issues” with that. 1)Are all “A” teams equal, and 2) who makes the determination that a team is an “A” or a “B” team? At one time I tried to break out our BB team’s stats by the division of the opponent. It failed miserably because we had a couple teams in our league who although were in the same division, literally stunk on ice.

I realize SB is a really different game, but like baseball, so much depends on the pitcher, and in SB it may depend on the pitcher even more. In the end I’ve given up even trying to break out the numbers by skill level of the opponent. Unless one’s extremely familiar with the entire team, there’s really no way to know if you’re facing the best pitcher or the best lineup.

What I’ve done is just concede the imperfection and trust mathematics. “Averaging” is a powerful tool, as is expressing things in relative ratios such as number of bases reached safely vs. number of opportunities. In short, no matter how much one tries, there’s just no way to accurately do it.

 

[canyonjoe]

If I'm doing it I can pick who I think are A teams. It's not perfect but it makes a difference. I actually believe the better MLB teams do something to determine how a hitter hits against the top pitchers to give an idea of who might be more valuable in the post season. I would bet if you looked at it, but the guys who always have bad post seasons.

I'm not a fan of getting 100 page reports weekly, but if I can find an edge to setting a lineup it's worth at least looking at. That's why we score on computers so we have that option to crunch numbers easily.

 

[Rocketech1]

That’s a tough question because I’ve never tried to look at the objective stats from a performance perspective. To me they’ve just been numbers to look at which were as unbiased as possible. But if I had to say, I’d guess they went pretty much along the same lines as the subjective stats. I’d like to think that’s because I do a pretty good job on all of them though, because the only reason I ever question stats is because I don’t trust the scorer or how consistent they are.

The worst scorekeepers are pitchers parents, all hits are errors on the defense or passed balls on the catcher!

The reason I asked about how players faired from one list (objective) to another list (subjective) was that I look at all of the stats to come up with trends for the players. Over time, you can fairly accurately gauge the performance of players as long as the scorekeeper is somewhat consistent in recording the book. One of my DDs former coaches said that he doesn't really care about stats but I don't agree, while they may have some limitations they are one set of many factors that make-up coaching decisions, why not use them to your advantage?