No tangle rule?

[sluggers]

In baseball, there is a no tangle rule. If the catcher and batter get tangled in a ball in front of the plate, then neither obstruction nor interference is called.

Rule 6.01(a)(10) Comment:

When a catcher and batter-runner going to first base have contact when the catcher is fielding the ball, there is generally no violation and nothing should be called. “Obstruction” by a fielder attempting to field a ball should be called only in very flagrant and violent cases because the rules give him the right of way, but of course such “right of way” is not a license to, for example, intentionally trip a runner even though fielding the ball. If the catcher is fielding the ball and any fielder, including the pitcher, obstructs a runner going to first base, “obstruction” shall be called and the base runner awarded first base.

Is there something like that in softball?

Here's a video about the MLB rule:

 

[chinamigarden]

Never heard of that.

 

[Gags]

I'm being lazy and haven't checked the rules, but I think I looked into this as well a few years ago, and couldn't find anything that specifically addressed this issue.

IMO - there's times where the catcher can be quicker to a bunted ball than the batter, and we don't do a good enough job of coaching up the catchers to pounce on it right away.

 

[sluggers]

Never heard of that.

I posted a video about the baseball rule.

 

[CoachJD]

In baseball, there is a no tangle rule. If the catcher and batter get tangled in a ball in front of the plate, then neither obstruction nor interference is called.

Is there something like that in softball?

Nothing in NFHS that allows for this, as far as I can tell.

The batter-runner shall be called out when the batter-runner interferes with a fielder attempting to make an initial play on a fair batted ball (8-2-7a).

Like any other batted ball, the onus is on the runner/batter-runner to not get in the way.

 

[sluggers]

Nothing in NFHS that allows for this, as far as I can tell.

The batter-runner shall be called out when the batter-runner interferes with a fielder attempting to make an initial play on a fair batted ball (8-2-7a).

Like any other batted ball, the onus is on the runner/batter-runner to not get in the way.

The baseball tangle rule comes from a catcher trying to field a bunted ball and the batter trying to run to 1B. The catcher and the batter get tangled. In MLB, the umpire should not call interference or obstruction.

If there's no similar rule in softball, then what's the call? The catcher impedes the batter from going to 1B and the batter interferes with the catcher making a play on the ball.

 

[CoachJD]

The baseball tangle rule comes from a catcher trying to field a bunted ball and the batter trying to run to 1B. The catcher and the batter get tangled. In MLB, the umpire should not call interference or obstruction.

If there's no similar rule in softball, then what's the call? The catcher impedes the batter from going to 1B and the batter interferes with the catcher making a play on the ball.

I posted the rule. It's a fair batted ball. The batter-runner cannot interfere with the fielder making the initial play on that batted ball. This is no different than a runner on first crashing into the second baseman, who is in the process of fielding a ground ball (contact not required for interference in any of these scenarios).

The call is interference, batter-runner is out.

 

[The Man In Blue]

NOTE: Edited to fix my error.

I posted the rule. It's a fair batted ball. The batter-runner cannot interfere with the fielder making the initial play on that batted ball. This is no different than a runner on first crashing into the second baseman, who is in the process of fielding a ground ball (contact not required for interference in any of these scenarios).

The call is interference, batter-runner is out.

Except the obstruction rule would put the batter-runner on first base . . . if it weren't for this:



No, softball does not have a tangle rule. You will see umpires erroneously apply the tangle provision though. Just saying.

The other place I have seen the tangle rule misapplied is plays on the bases. No, no such thing as a tangle ANYWHERE other than baseball and that specific play (batter and catcher with "incidental" contact). Also note, it is not a rule, it is a comment in OBR (MLB) and an interpretation in NFHS (a directive to umpires, often a way to placate the participants without changing the actual rule . . . I generally hate these as they typically run contrary to the actual rule).

 

[CoachJD]

NOTE: Edited to fix my error.



Except the obstruction rule would put the batter-runner on first base . . . if it weren't for this:

View attachment 30121

No, softball does not have a tangle rule. You will see umpires erroneously apply the tangle provision though. Just saying.

The other place I have seen the tangle rule misapplied is plays on the bases. No, no such thing as a tangle ANYWHERE other than baseball and that specific play (batter and catcher with "incidental" contact). Also note, it is not a rule, it is a comment in OBR (MLB) and an interpretation in NFHS (a directive to umpires, often a way to placate the participants without changing the actual rule . . . I generally hate these as they typically run contrary to the actual rule).

Wait, we agree on this one, right? It's not obstruction because the catcher is, presumably, making a play on the batted ball.

I suppose if the catcher isn't making the play OR the ball is so far away from home plate that the umpire feels the pitcher is the "protected" (I know that language is not in the book) fielder, it could be obstruction. I just assumed that the ball was right near home plate and the catcher was the obvious protected fielder and was clearly making a play on the ball.

 

[The Man In Blue]

We agree because of the "initial play" provision that provides an exclusion from obstruction. It needs to be a playable ball by the catcher for that to apply, though.

Admittedly, I had to edit because I started to say something different . . .

The key takeaway, in case anybody skimmed, is that baseballs "tangle rule" provides a "no-fault, no-call" option. Softball does not; the right of way goes to the catcher if they are making an initial play on the ball, the runner if not.