Leap into 2022, USA rules change for pitching

[radness]

The leaping rule wasn't enforced at the NCAA level, if you aren't enforcing it at the largest stage why are you enforcing it with 10 to 12 year olds?

ummm the 10u & 12u umpires are trying to show the ncaa umpires how to officiate?.........

 

[ArmWhip]

Can you see why I’m confused? Both posters above I believe are pitching instructors.

Pitchers that leap under the current rules generally do so because they have flawed drive mechanics, as Curveballer said. If and when leaping is allowed pitchers with a good drive sequence can possibly incorporate it for an advantage, this is where I am uncertain as to how big an advantage it will be, if at all. I think everyone is overestimating the effect of allowing leaping. Pitchers may leap but many will also drag. Here is the bronze medal game of the U-19 2019 World Cup, Canada vs Australia. You have to jump ahead about 16 minutes to get past the ceremony. Check out the pitchers of both teams, does anyone see a significant advantage here?

 

[GunnerShotgun]

…..and better pitching would be those pitchers who have the proper mechanics which include a drag, correct - or are you saying that better pitching can occur if the pitcher leaps?

I am saying dragging your foot is not a natural pitching motion and there isn't a good reason for it (to be a rule).

Imagine they instituted a rule where the batters back foot had to remain in contact with the ground during the swing.

 

[radness]

I am saying dragging your foot is not a natural pitching motion and there isn't a good reason for it (to be a rule).

Imagine they instituted a rule where the batters back foot had to remain in contact with the ground during the swing.


View attachment 24423

Good point dragging like an anchor is different than sliding forward.

(Or rather how weight is shifting, or not)

 

[curveballer124]

Pitchers that leap under the current rules generally do so because they have flawed drive mechanics, as Curveballer said. If and when leaping is allowed pitchers with a good drive sequence can possibly incorporate it for an advantage, this is where I am uncertain as to how big an advantage it will be, if at all. I think everyone is overestimating the effect of allowing leaping. Pitchers may leap but many will also drag. Here is the bronze medal game of the U-19 2019 World Cup, Canada vs Australia. You have to jump ahead about 16 minutes to get past the ceremony. Check out the pitchers of both teams, does anyone see a significant advantage here?

This is a great conversation but it is a moot point until the NCAA adopts this rule change. As a pitching instructor I am not going to teach my girls how to leap intentionally until the NCAA does so.

To clarify leaping done correctly and intentionally not only gains you ground but it typically adds a little more to the ball it’s just a very explosive movement… The downside to it is it could be a little tough to control and in Southern California where 80% (conservatively speaking) of the pitching mounds are beat to hell. It can make it very difficult to plant and land firmly to make a great pitch. So on a rough mound control is going to be an issue when a pitcher is leaping…..


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[ArmWhip]

I am saying dragging your foot is not a natural pitching motion and there isn't a good reason for it (to be a rule).

I don't know the answer to this question which is why I'm asking it. Is there any reason why pitchers like Cat Osterman, Yukiko Ueno and Monica Abbott still drag their foot? Do they play in any associations which have rules that require dragging the foot? If not then why are they still doing it if it hurts performance?

 

[curveballer124]

I don't know the answer to this question which is why I'm asking it. Is there any reason why pitchers like Cat Osterman, Yukiko Ueno and Monica Abbott still drag their foot? Do they play in any associations which have rules that require dragging the foot? If not then why are they still doing it if it hurts performance?

If you notice all three that you mentioned do leap slightly, and drag. Their foot does leave the ground and it does drag they are basically incorporating leaping and dragging together. I know it sounds crazy, but here’s the truth dragging is always going to be more controllable than leaping. When you push and drag it allows you to stay in control of your body. You gain accuracy and control you lose a little velocity compared to leaping. Then you have leaping which is a very explosive movement feet leave the ground and if you were able to firm up your front side well then you can snap that ball out of your hand pretty aggressively.

Then you have what I call the in-betweener’s that’s how I would classify Barnhill, Abbott, Osterman, Ueno. Not quite leaping but not quite dragging but they are in a position where they benefit from both disciplines…. With exception to Barnhill all of them played international ball ISF. I am sure they had the option to fully leap and chose to incorporate what they do now instead.

If and when they do fully legalize leaping in the NCAA and I start teaching it to my girls. I’m sure they’re going to be some girls who are going to be in-betweeners and some that are going to fully incorporate leaping and then there might be some girls who choose to drag it’s gonna come down to preference and what they’re comfortable with.

In the men’s game where you can leap jump, skip, hop, whatever the hell you want, there are some guys that choose to fully drag and they are very successful at it. Then there are guys like myself who enjoy leaping until we get tired and then we become in-betweener’s.

The greatest part about making that rule it’s going to give the girls choices and let them be comfortable on the mound. Without worrying about breaking a rule they can just focus on Pitching and keeping themselves safe.


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[Vertigo]

Then you have leaping which is a very explosive movement feet leave the ground and if you were able to firm up your front side well then you can snap that ball out of your hand pretty aggressively.

…..and this is what the particular player I referenced earlier in this thread does. So therefore, it can create an advantage and will work against those who have worked hard over the years to pitch with a drag to be legal.

Thank goodness my dd is in college now and won’t have to deal with this for at least a couple of years when it catches on in the NCAA.

 

[Hillhouse]

I have not read all 9 pages of this thread but reading some of the posts about this here, on other threads, and other sites all I can do is shake my head. Here's a few things I've said on other places:

1. All crow hoppers leap, not all leapers crow hop.

2. If it didn't help pitchers, it would've been legal long ago. The fact it was illegal says everything.

3. I spoke to Mike White the other day about a few things, he's on the NCAA rules committee. Even if the NFCA (which helps set the rules for NCAA) adopts the rule this year at their annual convention in Las Vegas, December 2021, it will take 2 years before it's official. All rules that are not safety issues have a 2 year window before they go into effect to help schools, coaches and future player prepare. This 2 year window is not just for pitching rules, its all rules that are not safety related. Those can be implemented immediately.

4. Someone mentioned Osterman on this Page 9 of this thread, and referenced that she dragged. She absolutely leaps and goes airborne. I don't know how anyone could think she dragged similar to Ueno, Abbott, Finch, etc. This was the subject of many many debates during her college career, many screamed "ILLEGAL" every time she pitched because she clearly was a leaper, but not a crow hopper. Second, yes Ueno and Abbott both drag and do not leap. Why? Because they make their money playing in Japan. Japan has the most restrictive pitching rules of any country. Their rules supersede the WBSC rules which allowed leaping. Japan did not allow it, despite the WBSC rule change. Considering they make $100's of thousands per year, their pitching styles for that reason. Osterman did not play in Japan (outside of USA tours, where she was frequently called illegal on those tours). Japan's rules are so restrictive, they don't even allow pitchers to use rosin. My former teammate Andrew Kirkpatrick, Australian pitcher who played in Japan also, was another who made a fortune there and his pitching motion was entirely based on the Japanese rules. He did not leap and would not use rosin or any substance for grip. If you google Kirkpatrick on YouTube, you will see his motion compared to Adam Folkard, another Australian who does NOT play in Japan. Folkard has missed out on a lot of money in Japan because of his delivery. But, he will go down in history in North America as one of the most dominant ever. So, take the YouTube challenge, watch Folkard and then watch Kirkpatrick. The pitchers who also play in Japan are very easy to spot, regardless of gender.

 

[curveballer124]

…..and this is what the particular player I referenced earlier in this thread does. So therefore, it can create an advantage and will work against those who have worked hard over the years to pitch with a drag to be legal.

Thank goodness my dd is in college now and won’t have to deal with this for at least a couple of years when it catches on in the NCAA.

Wow!! That’s crazy….. I’ve seen some girls unintentionally leap a little bit and get away with it but I have yet to see somebody leave their feet completely and not get called for it!


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