Is crow hopping now legal

[RADcatcher]

Love the brainstorm. My thought is that even if the foot doesn't land further forward, additional momentum can be imparted from the replant from the forward or downward momentum it imparts that can translate into whip.

If that same amount of momentum, forward or downward, can be produced without what you are seeing is a replant. Then the replant that you are seeing is not advantageous it's just another way to replicate what can be done without it.


Share this perspective because there are pitchers that their mechanics are not in question who are producing equivalent results.

 

[Tazman]

If that same amount of momentum, forward or downward, can be produced without what you are seeing is a replant. Then the replant that you are seeing is not advantageous it's just another way to replicate what can be done without it.


Share this perspective because there are pitchers that their mechanics are not in question who are producing equivalent results.

100% agree. The key word is IF. I actually don't think this particular pitcher is getting a large advantage but I do think a large advantage is possible using the replant. 1-2mph and a few inches makes a big difference at elite levels.

 

[RADcatcher]

100% agree. The key word is IF. I actually don't think this particular pitcher is getting a large advantage but I do think a large advantage is possible using the replant.

Sure could be advantageous.
Having different options of how to use mechanics I think would result in the possibility of more individuals finding performance.
Particularly because know after working
one-on-one with players over decades there is definitely a difference between a rigid player and a flexible player utilizing the same mechanics. There will be technical nuances that might be slightly different between the two even if in the bigger picture the mechanics may be the same.

I remember playing against Crow hopping pitchers with mega hop.
That were also allowed to jump to the left or right of the pitching rubber. Getting all sorts of weird angles on their trajectory. We still hit it. And I also remember with all the Freedom pitchers had they still picked and choose what they wanted to do. Some left the ground some didn't.
Which I think will continue.

1-2mph and a few inches makes a big difference at elite levels.

I agree that changing speeds of pitches is a critical element!
But for the most part speed/mph has already proven to not be enough at the elite level.

That pitchers rule change about their feet and the start back seemed to increase one or two miles per hour.

 

[ArmWhip]

additional momentum can be imparted from the replant from the forward or downward momentum it imparts that can translate into whip.

This may or may not be true, but one thing is certain, if you are going to have a 'useful' crow hop you are going to have to slow down or pause your arm circle to allow for the extra time spent in between launch and landing. This means a loss of momentum from the upswing and over the top portions of the arm/ball circle.

One other thing to consider, if the crow adds additional momentum then there should be more stress on the landing leg, which has to absorb the extra forward momentum. I don't see any sign that this is the case. I do want to stress that I'm talking about the mini replants that we see in women's softball and not the giant leaps that the men take.

 

[Northball]

This may or may not be true, but one thing is certain, if you are going to have a 'useful' crow hop you are going to have to slow down or pause your arm circle to allow for the extra time spent in between launch and landing. This means a loss of momentum from the upswing and over the top portions of the arm/ball circle.

One other thing to consider, if the crow adds additional momentum then there should be more stress on the landing leg, which has to absorb the extra forward momentum. I don't see any sign that this is the case. I do want to stress that I'm talking about the mini replants that we see in women's softball and not the giant leaps that the men take.

Watching the men's game, it seems there are more that have a pause or hitch in their circle and then really accelerate the whip on the downswing.

 

[RADcatcher]

Watching the men's game, it seems there are more that have a pause or hitch in their circle and then really accelerate the whip on the downswing.

Yes. Often would consider it carrying the ball before starting to pitch.

 

[ArmWhip]

Here is an instructional video on teaching the crow hop, it's an ISC production, where crow hopping is illegal, or used to be. Go to 23 minutes where they get into the hop, at 30 minutes they put it together with more full motion.

men's fastpitch pitching - Google Search

 

[dogpatch]

To be specific, the term "crow hop" (formerly 2-16) has been deleted in the 2024 NFHS rule book. The term "replant" has been added to the definitions section of the rule book (see 2-47). Then in the pitching regulations (section 6), the act of "replanting" the pivot foot is specifically prohibited (6-1-2c), while the term "crow hop" is not mentioned. Hairs are getting split and under the new rules, it would be improper to conflate the terms "crow hop" and "replant".

 

[lostcreek1]

Why didn't they just say the back foot cannot come into contact with the ground prior to the front foot, would have been so simple. Or just say the ball has to be thrown underhanded from a pitching rubber x foot from home plate, and let it go.

 

[Dabears17]

Guidance I was given in the CIF rules meeting:
1) 99.9pct of what folks will think is an illegal pitch, will not be an illegal pitch.
2) The pivot foot not being on the pitching plate at the start of the pitch is an illegal pitch.
3) Watch the non-pivot foot moving again after landing to help determine if a pitch is illegal.
4) Make sure you use the verbiage from the rule when explaining why a pitch is legal or illegal.