Ideas on what you do to....

[Rampage]

Runner is on third...a walk has been issued...how do you stop the runner on first from getting a free pass to second ?

How do you stop the runner from just taking off to second and either making a ill-advised throw or just giving up a free base and having another runner is scoring position?

 

[ArkFastpitch]

There are a ton of "gimmick" plays for that situation but unfortunately I've never seen any used with a high degree of success. I generally concede to the steal and put the game in my defenses hands. I know this is probably not the most gladiator-esque way of doing it but, with a well coached defense, your success rate will be much higher than with the gimmick stuff.

 

[quincy]

Most import things to do are get a fielder on 2nd and the ball back to the P as quickly as possible.

From there it depends on the game situation and fielders.

We usually take the out at 2nd, they can have their run. Especially with no outs. Clears the bases and we can start over.

Worse thing that can happen trying to get the out at 2nd is that the fielder sees the runner going home and throws home, next thing you know they have a runner on 2nd and a run scored. Like everything you need to practice it a little bit.

If we are going to concede 2nd, the ball still should get back the P as soon as possible. We want the P only concerned with the runner on 3rd. If the P wants to throw to 3rd, I do not care. Usually a nothing play but sometimes they have gotten the runner, on the other hand sometimes it has gone bad for us. I think the throw has been more in our favor but I am not positive.

 

[chinamigarden]

Depends on the age group, but here is a "gimmick" play that worked for my dd's team, in fact they even got a couple of double plays.

Catcher quickly gets the ball back to the pitcher, F4 moves up and toward first base. about 12-15 feet from first base. Once the runner rounds the pitcher immediately throws to F4, ideally F4 tags the runner and immediately deals with the runner on third, if she is headed to home throw there, or run her back to third. If the tag isn't there then F4 deals with the runner at third.

By cutting of the batter runner F4 creates a much shorter throw for herself to home, this play works great at the 10-12U levels

 

[Rampage]

Depends on the age group, but here is a "gimmick" play that worked for my dd's team, in fact they even got a couple of double plays.

Catcher quickly gets the ball back to the pitcher, F4 moves up and toward first base. about 12-15 feet from first base. Once the runner rounds the pitcher immediately throws to F4, ideally F4 tags the runner and immediately deals with the runner on third, if she is headed to home throw there, or run her back to third. If the tag isn't there then F4 deals with the runner at third.

By cutting of the batter runner F4 creates a much shorter throw for herself to home, this play works great at the 10-12U levels

This is exactly what I teach. Works sometimes but with younger girls you have to work the read of the runner breaking...what we see sometimes is the f4 wants to hold the ball.

 

[Strike2]

I've found that appearing alert and looking like you know what you're doing will slow most runners down.

On the walk...ball immediately back to P, and F6 covers 2B. F4 comes up near the baseline mid-way and looks toward the runner at 1B. 3B watches her runner, and catcher watches the field and calls the play. Throw can go to F4, F6, or Home. Unless it's late in the game and a close score, play for the out at 2B, but don't throw too quickly. Let the runner get far enough off 1B that, assuming a decent throw, an out is likely either from a tag at 2B or F6/F4 running down the retreating runner. A throw to F4 can also be turned to a quick look toward 1B and a throw Home to target runner coming from 3B. No fake throws from P...once the runner touches 1B, look-back is in effect. Fake throws allow runners to dance around. Pitcher's throwing hand on ball inside glove about chest-high...P in a position to quickly throw, and runners must commit. Properly execute once or twice, and that stuff will stop quickly. A 10/12U rec team with a competent infield should be able to do this.

I only send a runner onto 2B off a walk with a runner on 3B if the defense looks like they're asleep. It's just as effective, and lower risk, to send the runner at 1B on the next pitch. That way, the throw MUST come from the Catcher instead of the Pitcher making the throw to a potentially ready defense.

 

[JAD]

The question you have to ask yourself is "will the runner take 2B on the next pitch regardless"? Because if she will, then there is no reason to run a gimmick play. One play we ran at 12U was to have the SS cover the bag at second, but position the 2B in the baseline halfway between 1B and 2B. If the batter rounds 1B, throw to the second baseman to try to make a quick tag. 2B will also have a shorter throw home if runner at 3B breaks. We actually turned a double play doing this once.

I have also seen teams throw the ball to the first baseman. If the batter rounds first she tags her. Once the batter stops at 1B return the ball to the circle and then she is subject to the look back rule. 1B needs to be aware of the runner at 3B and be prepared to throw home if she goes.

 

[Terror Coach]

My 10u team is trading the run for the out. Ss takes the bag, 2b is 20 feet from 2b ready to tag. All our outs come at the bag. We have yet to get one throwing to 2nd basemen. As long as the SS covers second most teams won't try for second. Once you nail a girl at 2b the girls stop listening to the coach and stay at 1st. Our goal is to prevent any attempts. The hardest part is getting your pitcher to throw the ball and to throw it on time. Also not a bad idea to practice having the pitcher fake a throw to 2nd. If the runner at 3rd bites you may be able to get the lead runner.

 

[4 girl's dad]

We do the same as most have stated but do have a call for either getting the out at 2 or getting the runner at home. Depends on where we are in the game, score, outs etc.

Last year at 10u we never needed it. Yesterday in 12u they did it to us twice. Our mental mistakes caused a bad throw by P to 2b the first time and a dropped throw by 2b the second time. Would have been the third out both times.

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

Just doing a little research, and it turns out that the Run Expectancy (RE) difference between 1st & 3rd and 2nd & 3rd is around 0.1 runs for any given number of outs. This is for D1 2014. During the 2011 post season, RE actually was lower for 2nd & 3rd than 1st & 3rd.

I know that D1 stats don't directly cross to 12U, but they can be used as a guideline for how we might coach the situation.



Initial state: 0 outs, runner at 3B - RE is 1.446
The RE with 0 outs and 1st & 3rd is 1.907 and 2nd & 3rd is 2.062 - about a 0.5 run increase
The RE with 1 out bases empty is 0.308 + the run that scores (assuming you concede it) = 1.308.
The RE with 1 out, runner at 2B is 0.736 (assuming you got the lead runner on a gimmick play; could be 0.597 if the runner held at 1B)
The RE with 0 outs, runner at 2B is 1.199 + the run scored on a failed play = 2.199 (or 1.044 + the scored run if the B/R held at 1B = 2.044)

Best case scenario - you run a play that targets and gets the lead runner and holds the B/R at 1B, which nets you a RE reduction from 2.199 (max RE for a failed play) to 0.597 = -1.602 RE.
Worst case scenario - run a failed play that allows the run and lets B/R get to 2B = 2.199 RE

What does it all mean? Starting from an initial state of 1st and 3rd: If you try and fail you will have increased your RE by around 0.2 runs, but if you try for the B/R and succeed you will reduce your RE by about 0.6 runs (and if you try and succeed against the lead runner, you reduce your RE by about 1.4 runs).

I'd have to dig out my stats book to run the probabilities, but the numbers seem to indicate that making the attempt at an out is worth it, on average. Your RE increase if you fail is only 2.062 -> 2.199 or 0.137, while your RE decrease if you succeed (even while conceding a run) is 2.062 ->1.308 or -0.754. That's almost a full run difference.