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Mar 29, 2024
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Hi Guys and Gals....

I coach 12U softball and had an interesting situation pop up yesterday, and we never got a clear answer so I'm curious to know the actual ruling here.

We were hitting. no one on, no one out. 0-0 count. Batter swings and fouls the ball off of her bat but mostly her hand. Her hand was bruising immediately, and she had to come out of the game.

Here's where it gets fun. In our league we bat all 11 players. So there was no one to sub for her. Our umpires were about 16 years old and literally suggested that we flip a coin to decide (clueless). The other team's coach obviously said she was out. We thought maybe the last batter out on our team could come in for her and take over her count? In the long run they called her out.

What do you think? Was that the right call?
 
Nov 18, 2015
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Sounds like it was the right call. I believe all the rulesets state the batter is out if they can’t finish the AB with no available subs.

If its 12U rec - perhaps a wiser course of action may have been to just let the next player finish the AB, but if a coin toss was being considered, pretty sure wisdom was 1/2 way to the parking lot at that point.


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Jan 22, 2011
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If you are going to bat the order in 12u rec, there needs to be a specific rule to handle this. I've seen local rules that say if a player comes out for an injury you collapse the line-up without penalty unless there are 8 players, then there is an out. There is also a rule an injured player can not renter the lineup if they skip an at bat.

This is why I hate local rules. There is usually unintended consequences that no one ever thinks of until something like a player getting hurt happens.

A 10u local rule a couple years ago said after a total of 3 walks and/or HPB in an inning, the coach comes into pitch. Batter was injured by the HBP, so could not continue at bat, while in rec they bat the order. I had to call the batter out.
 
May 29, 2015
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Agree with the above . . . sound as if you are playing with house rules, so the house rules. Yes, the league should have a contingency rule. In a rec league, the "right" thing to do would be compress the lineup. Let the next batter assume the count (0-1 on either the dead ball strike or the foul ball).

"Formal" rules, yes, she would be out.
 
Mar 1, 2013
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I agree here. You can support it with rules too (although stretching a little).

First, USA says in pool play if a player leaves the game for an injury, you compress the lineup and no penalty. This may not be pool play, but we are batting more than 9 so let's assume the rules and exceptions apply here.

USA Softball Rule 4.1.D.2.A Exception said:
In All Junior Olympic Fast Pitch Pool Play Only. When a team elects to use more than nine batters an out will be recorded if a player leaves the game for any reason other than injury or ejection. If a player leaves for an injury and cannot continue in the game, the game will continue with the injured player(s) batting position(s) being skipped with no out recorded. Teams cannot play with fewer than eight players.

So now what do you do with the count (assume 0-1 here). Most of the rules around a batting out of order or incorrect batter have the correct batter assume the count of the incorrect batter. Barring any other direction in the local rules, I'd have the now proper batter assume the pitch count of the injured player.

Coaches and parents - if you have any influence into your local rules at all - please ask the "what if" questions that seem to take us down a rabbit hole here. Heading this off before the season started would have been much easier than "flipping a coin".
 
Aug 12, 2014
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We had this come up in a rec playoff game. The batter would've been out so we had her just stand there and not swing. She ended up walking and then we could put in a courtesy runner. I tried to get something put in for the following season to allow someone else to complete the AB but I was voted down for some reason.
 
May 20, 2015
1,113
113
Agree with the above . . . sound as if you are playing with house rules, so the house rules. Yes, the league should have a contingency rule. In a rec league, the "right" thing to do would be compress the lineup. Let the next batter assume the count (0-1 on either the dead ball strike or the foul ball).

"Formal" rules, yes, she would be out.


this all day.....it's rec ball, compress the lineup......and give the girl sliding into that spot a fresh count, it's not a big deal

and, if the next time through the order, she decides she's iced it and it feels a little better and she wants to try to bat, go for it....let her try

it's rec ball.......
 
May 29, 2015
3,769
113
I agree here. You can support it with rules too (although stretching a little).

First, USA says in pool play if a player leaves the game for an injury, you compress the lineup and no penalty. This may not be pool play, but we are batting more than 9 so let's assume the rules and exceptions apply here.



So now what do you do with the count (assume 0-1 here). Most of the rules around a batting out of order or incorrect batter have the correct batter assume the count of the incorrect batter. Barring any other direction in the local rules, I'd have the now proper batter assume the pitch count of the injured player.

Coaches and parents - if you have any influence into your local rules at all - please ask the "what if" questions that seem to take us down a rabbit hole here. Heading this off before the season started would have been much easier than "flipping a coin".

Thanks to my cynicism about coaches, especially rec league ones (a thankless job, I know), you almost have to assume the count. Otherwise, you'd have every girl getting mysterious illnesses and injuries ever time they got two strikes on them.

Edited to add: "Time, Blue! I think my batter has scurvy!"
 
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