Dropped Third Strike

[marriard]

We have a fairly long list of 'local rules'. I put them in two categories:

1) Things we have in place because coaches need to be forced to do them (like play everyone)
2) Things to make sure the game moves and every player has a good experience.

We have well over 90% return rate over the past 3 seasons. Including ALL our travel girls who enjoy playing in the league (it is not mandatory) and we have kids from other cities coming to our league more and more often.

We spent a huge amount of time developing pitching and catching and we still have local rules because we want to make sure the girl who is picking up the sport for the first time gets the opportunity to enjoy the game.

In 10U we have stealing rules to make sure they make the throw on steals (even with no chance). We have fielding and pitching rules to ensure that the girls have the opportunity to make the right play. We have some modified coach pitching rules only on 3-0 and 3-1 - so you can walk if you can get to a full count. We move girls up and down between divisions regularly based on where their skills are so we technically don't age label divisions (it is basically t-ball (6U), coachpitch (8u), minors (10U) and majors (12U) but we have some players in all labels who are not of the age but we got together as a league and with their parents and placed players appropriately.

Our 12U rec rules is 'max 5 runs per inning (plus unlimited last inning)', pitchers/catchers are allowed a max 3 innings per game (4 in finals), everyone must play in the infield by the end of the third inning and no one sits on the bench two innings in a row and we do have a continuous batting order (with no 'out' for a player who leaves).

In the past three years we have had maybe one walk fests in 12U I can remember (due to a team missing its top 3 pitchers one night for a school play)

In rec there is a balance between developing players and making sure we are not concentrating on 2 or 3 girls per team to the exclusion of others. Right now we are doing a pretty good job of this. We review each year to determine the right approach for the season and to discuss what we need to do - this year we have LOTS of pitching in Minors so we tightened up the mod-pitching rules.

EDIT: Majors (12U) we have dropped 3rd and open home plate. Minors (10U) we don't and you can only take home on a batted ball.

NEXT EDIT: Our entire 8U travel is playing up in 10U rec this season which is great for their development. It has given opportunities to the 'real' 8U players in coach pitch to play more infield and made our Minors stronger. Several of our 10U Travel are playing in 12U as well. We are very lucky to have great coaches through out the league who are willing to work together to try and do the right things for the girls as best we can.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Great post, Marriard, and it sounds like your area is doing a lot of things for the good of the game.

I struggle to understand why some in the thread are arguing against batting the roster and having no player sit on the bench for more than 1 inning at a time in rec ball. The purpose of rec, regardless of where you live, is to get kids into the game.

In NorCal, we do have a fall season following summer All-stars that is competitive rec. These are teams which conform to all the rules of the ASA 'B' program. The rules of play for 10u and above are basically straight ASA with a run limit per inning. During this season, managers will learn how to manage lineup cards and substitutions, and with the mandated minimum play requirement (every player must play 12 consecutive outs), it actually forces the managers to more when trying to maximize their team's chances for success.

 

[Dabears17]

12u should be pretty close to real softball with drop third strike and definitely allow stealing home. The board in my league resisted allowing continuation on walks until finally last year we changed it.

Until 2007 (or 2008?) ASA didn't have dropped third strike in 10u. My memory is a little hazy, but I think that prior to that year ASA 10u didn't allow stealing home or a runner starting at 1st or 2nd to advance more than one base per pitch when stealing.

Many of these 'closed home plate' and 'only one base per pitch' ASA rec league rules are leagues that decided for rec leagues, they didn't want to change to the new ASA 10u tournament rules when they changed 5 or so years ago.

I have a 2005 or 2006 umpire case book somewhere at home. I'm not sure if I still have my 2006 rulebook.

On the other hand..... my 7yo daughter who has been watching softball since she was 3 weeks old is trying to convince me to get the rules changed so she can steal and there is dropped 3rd strike in 8u rec.

 

[T Red]

I can appreciate this:

We spent a huge amount of time developing pitching and catching and we still have local rules because we want to make sure the girl who is picking up the sport for the first time gets the opportunity to enjoy the game.

I believe there is a serious shortage of good pitchers in my area right now. Mainly because coaches are not forced to develop and play less experienced pitchers. Most coaches ride their best pitcher into the ground before putting in their second pitcher. The best way to develop a pitcher is for them to get playing time.

I know, I'm just dreaming.

 

[marriard]

I can appreciate this:

I believe there is a serious shortage of good pitchers in my area right now. Mainly because coaches are not forced to develop and play less experienced pitchers. Most coaches ride their best pitcher into the ground before putting in their second pitcher. The best way to develop a pitcher is for them to get playing time.

I know, I'm just dreaming.

No you are not dreaming. Since our rec rules say 3 innings max for pitchers and catchers but since our last inning is unlimited runs everyone saves their best pitcher and catcher for the last inning (so you must use a second pitcher in the middle innings).

Also every Sunday evening we organized to have the pitchers, catchers and players (and their parents and some coaches) from the local high schools come out to mentor the pitchers and catchers in exchange for service hours. It has made a massive difference to the depth in our league.

 

[Rocketech1]

IMO, dumbing down the rules really does a disservice to the players. 8u is where the girls learn to pitch and face live pitching. Can the games be painful sometimes, yes, but it really forces the players to develop their pitching skills so by the time they play all stars and/or 10u they are prepared to play by the full rules of fastpitch. Our 10u has DTS, infield fly, can steal any base, etc. and it works pretty well and is a more interesting than adult pitch which I can't even imagine for 10 year olds. There are run limits first 4 innings, 4 outfielders, and bat round robin which is a good compromise to the rules. Challenge the girls a little bit, you would be surprised how much they improve.

 

[29dad]

IMO, dumbing down the rules really does a disservice to the players. 8u is where the girls learn to pitch and face live pitching. Can the games be painful sometimes, yes, but it really forces the players to develop their pitching skills so by the time they play all stars and/or 10u they are prepared to play by the full rules of fastpitch. Our 10u has DTS, infield fly, can steal any base, etc. and it works pretty well and is a more interesting than adult pitch which I can't even imagine for 10 year olds. There are run limits first 4 innings, 4 outfielders, and bat round robin which is a good compromise to the rules. Challenge the girls a little bit, you would be surprised how much they improve.

Interesting that you are against "dumbing down the rules" but you seem to advocate run limits and playing with 4 outfielders.

 

[Rocketech1]

Interesting that you are against "dumbing down the rules" but you seem to advocate run limits and playing with 4 outfielders.

These minor modifications with local rules allow for greater participation for the players and keeps the games from getting out of hand in the early innings. It's a good compromise for Rec but still allows the players to play fastpitch under essentially the same rules they will face the rest of their softball careers. To me there is a huge difference between adding an extra oufielder versus having entire coach pitch in 10u. And then we wonder why some regions of the country produce top talent why others do not.

 

[CoogansBluff]

And then we wonder why some regions of the country produce top talent why others do not.

I respect your opinion on the rules, but are you saying that the rules of rec leagues are a major factor in whether an area will produce top talent or not? Is there evidence of this?

 

[marriard]

IMO, dumbing down the rules really does a disservice to the players. 8u is where the girls learn to pitch and face live pitching. Can the games be painful sometimes, yes, but it really forces the players to develop their pitching skills so by the time they play all stars and/or 10u they are prepared to play by the full rules of fastpitch.

Sport should never be painful to any players who is 7 or 8 years old.

And are they prepared to play 10U because all the kids who hated the game quit and didn't come back? How do you handle the totally new awkward and non-athletic player in the league - put them on the bench and leave them there?

We have had girls who could barely put one foot in front of the other suddenly grow up and be one of the best players in high school. You don't want to lose a 7 year old to another sport because it was painful to play and they had a bad experience. That is one of the reasons our baseball program is down 20% on registrations and our softball program is up 10% on registrations.

My DD loves the game - so she plays up in rec and plays in her age group for travel. But I also want to make sure the girls who is trying the sport for the first time or is only playing rec once per year enjoys the game.

Maybe it is just me but I believe rec should be for everyone, and travel is for for the committed, serious and the talented.