This is a basic fastpitch rule... if your gonna do it, do it right. Otherwise stick to "just for fun" slowpitch.
Dropped Third Strike
- Thread starter gdthompson
- Start date
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I'll be in the minority on this one, but here goes ...
My first suggestion would be that you respect the opinion of these coaches. I don't mean ‘’pretend to respect,’’ but actually understand that these coaches are trying to make the league a better experience for the girls, just as you are. The way you describe it, you have made up your mind, and the other coaches are misguided beacons of what's wrong with this country. If you are not open-minded, why should they be?
Rec leagues make the game easier to play all the time, and for good reason. We allow them to hit off the tee at 6U. We allow adult pitchers at 8U. We allow no walks at 10U. What these coaches are proposing is not outrageous, IMO. It would not be ''a great disservice,'' IMO, to eliminate the dropped third strike. I'd have to watch a 12U game in your league and see what the games look like for deciding how I felt, but I'd consider it. It's not like we're adding a fourth strike.
Shouldn’t we give the kids, and not the parents, what they signed up for? If the kids signed up for the dropped-third-strike rule, then give it to them. Maybe we should ask the kids what they want.
Kids will adapt. It will be no big deal, IMO.
I guess it’s important for rec leagues to teach coaches to do these things, but the first priority of a rec league is the experience they are giving to the kids. “Sorry, Julie, but you are not in the batting lineup today because the coach needs to learn how to manage a lineup card.’’ I don't buy that argument. Kids sign up for rec league to play. You’ll never see kids object to letting everybody bat in rec league. Only adults do that. Why is it?
I'd be curious to know what the girls in the league think of the dropped-third rule. As I said, I don't know how I'd vote on keeping or dropping the dropped third, but I'd like to watch a game in this league, or hear what these ''just for fun'' coaches have to say. They might have a good argument.
My first suggestion would be that you respect the opinion of these coaches. I don't mean ‘’pretend to respect,’’ but actually understand that these coaches are trying to make the league a better experience for the girls, just as you are. The way you describe it, you have made up your mind, and the other coaches are misguided beacons of what's wrong with this country. If you are not open-minded, why should they be?
Rec leagues make the game easier to play all the time, and for good reason. We allow them to hit off the tee at 6U. We allow adult pitchers at 8U. We allow no walks at 10U. What these coaches are proposing is not outrageous, IMO. It would not be ''a great disservice,'' IMO, to eliminate the dropped third strike. I'd have to watch a 12U game in your league and see what the games look like for deciding how I felt, but I'd consider it. It's not like we're adding a fourth strike.
Shouldn’t we give the kids, and not the parents, what they signed up for? If the kids signed up for the dropped-third-strike rule, then give it to them. Maybe we should ask the kids what they want.
Kids will adapt. It will be no big deal, IMO.
I guess it’s important for rec leagues to teach coaches to do these things, but the first priority of a rec league is the experience they are giving to the kids. “Sorry, Julie, but you are not in the batting lineup today because the coach needs to learn how to manage a lineup card.’’ I don't buy that argument. Kids sign up for rec league to play. You’ll never see kids object to letting everybody bat in rec league. Only adults do that. Why is it?
I'd be curious to know what the girls in the league think of the dropped-third rule. As I said, I don't know how I'd vote on keeping or dropping the dropped third, but I'd like to watch a game in this league, or hear what these ''just for fun'' coaches have to say. They might have a good argument.
- Mar 1, 2013
- 428
- 63
In the local rec leagues around here, they do the "continuous batting order". Along with that modification, they allow for a girl to miss her time at bat (if she has left the game anyway, not if she happens to be in the bathroom when her time comes up) without penalty. If the number of girls drops below 9, then they enforce the out in the lineup for the last girl to leave the game.
As for courtesy runners, they allow for the last out to run for the catcher when there are 2 outs.
They enforce the uncaught third strike at the 12U level, but not at 10U. 10U there are no walks. Pitcher gets 5 pitches (unless she works the count full, then she gets a sixth pitch). Coach then comes in to pitch with the same count. Batters can strike out. Makes for loooooooong games, especially early. I recall having 3 inning games go the time limit (90 minutes).
I've coached in the rec leagues here and just adapted to them. Now that I've started umpiring, keeping track of the different modifications can be problematic. Each local rec league and rec tournament has their own little unique changes. It's nice to call regular tournament ball when the opportunity arises, because you don't have to deal with modifications like that.
Within the rec organization, they pull girls (10U and 12U) for the Sunday Select program, and they play at a higher level with standard rules. The girls who are there just to play rec, play rec. The players who either have the skills or aspire to better their game, try out for the tournament teams.
As for courtesy runners, they allow for the last out to run for the catcher when there are 2 outs.
They enforce the uncaught third strike at the 12U level, but not at 10U. 10U there are no walks. Pitcher gets 5 pitches (unless she works the count full, then she gets a sixth pitch). Coach then comes in to pitch with the same count. Batters can strike out. Makes for loooooooong games, especially early. I recall having 3 inning games go the time limit (90 minutes).
I've coached in the rec leagues here and just adapted to them. Now that I've started umpiring, keeping track of the different modifications can be problematic. Each local rec league and rec tournament has their own little unique changes. It's nice to call regular tournament ball when the opportunity arises, because you don't have to deal with modifications like that.
Within the rec organization, they pull girls (10U and 12U) for the Sunday Select program, and they play at a higher level with standard rules. The girls who are there just to play rec, play rec. The players who either have the skills or aspire to better their game, try out for the tournament teams.
I like batting all the players, makes the Manager’s job a lot easier. You basically can move players around any way you want to.
Dropped 3rd strike can get ugly, especially at first. Players start figuring it out, still occurs too often for my liking. Those players you used to throw behind home plate to see if the liked the position disappear, you need a good C. 12U is where DD’s league started to allow stealing home and dropped 3rd strikes.
Dropped 3rd strike can get ugly, especially at first. Players start figuring it out, still occurs too often for my liking. Those players you used to throw behind home plate to see if the liked the position disappear, you need a good C. 12U is where DD’s league started to allow stealing home and dropped 3rd strikes.
Also in the minority. Watched my 11 year old son play rec baseball last year and the dropped third strike was incredibly painful. Due to numerous position rotations there would be boys playing catcher who almost literally could not catch. Innings would last forever. In the heat. It wasn't fun. It was practically unwatchable. I don't think eliminating the dropped third strike makes a mockery of the game. Not in rec ball.
- Oct 7, 2009
- 123
- 0
First and foremost, rec ball has to accommodate parents. Kids have no money at that age, so it's the parents putting up the $120 or so for the kids to play, spend the time and money driving the kids and shell out of the $5.00 for Happy Meals. 90% of the parents (made up stat) of the kids in rec ball do not want long, drawn out walkathon games. It's simply boring to sit on a metal bleacher on an early spring evening and watch the lineup walk until the inning run limit comes across. That's why the rules about no walks and no dropped third strike are put into place. You play pure fats pitch softball with kids who aren't, for the most part, all that interested in serious softball, and you get those unbearably boring games. You get enough of those and parents become a bit tighter with the checkbook. They make these modifications because they have to. For parents and coaches who can't live with the modifications, it's probably better to stay away from a rec league and find a travel team to play for.
My $.02.
My $.02.
Are boys watering down their rules, too? If not, the girls should not, either.
I think it was last year father's LL Teams started the dropped 3rd strike, 10 - 12 year olds.
I do not think it has anything to do with boys or girls.
I do not think it has anything to do with boys or girls.
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
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"Taking" the out should never be an option because it creates contentious situations later in a game.
- Feb 3, 2011
- 1,880
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I know every rec league is different, but prior to this year, the dividing line between rec rules and real rules in our town was always 10u<=>12u. This year, the comp rules are starting in 10u, with a few minor exceptions. For example, if there's a dropped 3rd with a runner starting on 2B, we're only allowing that running to advance to 3B on the play, even if there's an overthrow on the attempt to retire the batter-runner at 1B.
Unfortunately, all but 3 other leagues in NorCal decided that 10u should open home plate. In our town, a bunch of people wondered why there was any need to bother with rec at all, so they opted not to return this spring, instead opting to go TB.
Although there is a LOT of wisdom in CoogansBluff's post - as always - I'm going to side with the suggestion to have dropped 3rd and open home for 12u. Again, I appreciate that every area is different, but despite the overall competitiveness of our region, our town program has a pretty strong rec tradition as far as participation is concerned and you achieve that by having rules in place that best accommodate the largest number of players and parents.
That doesn't mean those rules cannot change over time, but on average, I believe 12u - even with players who are new to softball - is a good time to have dropped 3rd as a regular part of the rec game. We also 6-run limit per half inning.
Unfortunately, all but 3 other leagues in NorCal decided that 10u should open home plate. In our town, a bunch of people wondered why there was any need to bother with rec at all, so they opted not to return this spring, instead opting to go TB.
Although there is a LOT of wisdom in CoogansBluff's post - as always - I'm going to side with the suggestion to have dropped 3rd and open home for 12u. Again, I appreciate that every area is different, but despite the overall competitiveness of our region, our town program has a pretty strong rec tradition as far as participation is concerned and you achieve that by having rules in place that best accommodate the largest number of players and parents.
That doesn't mean those rules cannot change over time, but on average, I believe 12u - even with players who are new to softball - is a good time to have dropped 3rd as a regular part of the rec game. We also 6-run limit per half inning.
