Cheating or Aggressive Base Running?

[Hillhouse]

It has been way too long since I read a Bobby “The Brain” quote.

Bill, if you have more I implore you to share them, lol!

"A friend in need.... is a pest."

 

[Hillhouse]

In fairness, I haven't read all the comments on this thread, I do live in Nebraska (the state where this occurred) so, I've been hearing about this event for the last week or 2.

Whether you agree or disagree with the umpire's role in this (as to whether or not the ump can do anything without an appeal), the thing that bothers me the most are the claims about the coach cheating, encouraging his players to cheat, etc. I don't know the coach, I don't know any of the players on either team, so I don't have a dog in this fight at all. So don't misunderstand me. But unless anyone has actual first hand knowledge of cheating, I think it's sad to hear the accusations. It certainly LOOKS like it was a planned play but, without someone being involved in the scandal firsthand....

And please everyone, if you're going to reply to this with "I know the coach cheated because my daughter's best friend's step sister has a cousin who played for him". All I'm saying is, I certainly wouldn't want to be called a cheat and I doubt others would either. If he actually cheated or encouraged the team to, then he should be fired.

 

[DNeeld]

It certainly LOOKS like it was a planned play but, without someone being involved in the scandal firsthand....

Well, there was the twitter post (since deleted) where the coach admitted it was both a designed and practiced "play".

Separately, I find all the venom towards umpires in this situation hilarious. Umpires are there to enforce the rules as written. Full stop. Not enforce the rules as someone believes they should be written.

Its fine to have a problem with the rule as written but the remedy isn't through umpires. The remedy is to go through whatever committee is making the rules and advocate for a rule change.

Its like getting mad at a cop for giving you a speeding ticket because you believe the speed limit should be higher. Or, more on point, getting mad at a cop NOT giving a speeding ticket because you believe the speed limit should be slower. And about as silly. You don't argue with the cop about what the speed limit should be. The cop has no power to change the speed limit. You go to the legislature and make your case.

 

[PapaBear]

can’t the umpire call the runner out for leaving 2nd base early which would negate the next part of missing 3rd?

Or out of the baseline. Then let the coach discuss it.

 

[Agcy]

Simply there are so many different umpires and places to play softball that first time versus multiple times maybe irrelevant. How would every umpire know the past history of coaches?
Not possible.

Btw I am not arguing the rule book here. Rather being realistic about the situation. And knowing that umpires handle officiating/ judgment differently.


he wasn't on board with playing by the rules... tisk tisk...

That was meant to be in the same game. If they try to do it once, warn them. If they try to do it again, in the same game, restriction.

 

[Agcy]

i would have ruled it as indifference

Nope. I am a catcher's dad and would prefer that, but it was a stolen base; just like runners at first and third and not 'real' attempt to throw the runner out at second is a stolen base and not indifference.

 

[marriard]

Or out of the baseline. Then let the coach discuss it.

The baseline only applies on the way to first and even then only if they get in the way of a play. And the '3 foot' rule is for an established base path (which has nothing to do with the lines) if someone is attempting to place a tag based on where the runner is (not the lines). Technically the runner can run wherever they want.

No call on that either.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

The remedy is to go through whatever committee is making the rules and advocate for a rule change.

If the opposing coach does his job we wouldn't need yet another rule.

 

[radness]

That was meant to be in the same game. If they try to do it once, warn them. If they try to do it again, in the same game, restriction.

Yet @marriard described knowing in advance that a coach has cheated in previous games.
Is not the same as doing it once in a game and being warned and then twice the repercussion.
Using his feedback because of his resourcefulness in umpiring rules.


My added comment is there are so many different umpires and so many different places teams play would not be realistic that an Umpire would know a coach's history.
*IF there were a factual database about coaches history on cheating,
Umpires might have a heads up previously. But since they don't...
Blatant problem sticks out like a sore thumb... and worse when there is no repercussion immediately.

 

[Hillhouse]

If the opposing coach does his job we wouldn't need yet another rule.

a valid point. HOWEVER, do we know if the umpires saw this infraction??? I've seen countless arguments in my lifetime from a coach saying someone missed the base, ultimately if the umpire didn't see it then they cannot rule the player out on the appeal.

It sure sounds like there's enough blame to go around in this situation, and I'm guessing coaches will be more vigilant, especially when playing this team and any team the HC is with in the future. I do agree with the others though, that this is 1000000% an appeal play. Umpires aren't allowed to interject themselves on appeal plays. I'll have to go look at the video again to see what the HP umpire did when the girl who missed 3rd scored: did he signal safe? IF he saw the infraction, his correct move is to signal nothing. And honestly, how many people really look at the umpire's signal when a runner is blatantly safe. Yes, she was safe by taking a very liberal turn at 3rd but, even if the umpire saw that, under the rules, he's not allowed to say anything or even signal the runner safe.

Remember in Shawshank Redemption when Andy escaped, and Red's voice over said "How often do you really look at a man's shoes?" If the guards had noticed, then his escape might've been ruined. And if the coaches had noticed the umpire making a no-call, then their antenna's should be up and try to figure out why there's a no-call. Of course, even if the coaches saw the ump make a "no call" on the runner, who amongst us would think that runner would've done what she did and made that exact appeal? At best a coach would probably say "She missed home" if the umpire didn't signal "safe".