Baserunner question

[HollowMan]

I have a question about a play I saw this weekend.

No outs, runner at 1st. A very shallow pop-up is hit to the first baseman (just a step behind the bag). She drops the ball. Runner takes off for second, 1st baseman steps on first and throws to second where the runner is easily tagged out for the double play.

What's the runner at first to do? If she stays on first, is she subject to being tagged out? I know after first base has been touched, the force is off, so she's OK if she's there. What if she is tagged prior to first base being touched, but the runner is still on the bag?

 

[Ajaywill]

See this thread for a similar situation and ruling...

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/sof...ght-ruling-wrong-even-though-our-benefit.html

Basically, once the fly ball is not caught, the runner on first is FORCED off of first base by the batter becoming a batter-runner. So even if she is still standing on first base, she is liable to be put out by being tagged before the batter-runner is put out.

 

[Momo'sDad]

I have a question about a play I saw this weekend.

No outs, runner at 1st. A very shallow pop-up is hit to the first baseman (just a step behind the bag). She drops the ball. Runner takes off for second, 1st baseman steps on first and throws to second where the runner is easily tagged out for the double play.

What's the runner at first to do? If she stays on first, is she subject to being tagged out? I know after first base has been touched, the force is off, so she's OK if she's there. What if she is tagged prior to first base being touched, but the runner is still on the bag?

Is there any particular reason infield fly wasn't called?

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Yes. There was only a runner at first. IFR was not in effect.

 

[leechristensen]

what i teach is if you have a good base runner on first is to read the throw from f3 by watching the glove of the ss or 2b and have them run in the ball path and hopefully the ball will bounce off of them. they could also after the throw try to get back to first. either way your runner is in a bad position for a double play.

 

[MTR]

what i teach is if you have a good base runner on first is to read the throw from f3 by watching the glove of the ss or 2b and have them run in the ball path and hopefully the ball will bounce off of them.

And if an umpire recognizes what the runner did, the ball is dead and the runner is out for INT.

they could also after the throw try to get back to first. either way your runner is in a bad position for a double play.

That's a heads-up play.

 

[Greenmonsters]

And if an umpire recognizes what the runner did, the ball is dead and the runner is out for INT.



That's a heads-up play.

So... please explain how an umpire that needs to be clued in to the specific intent of the defense on an appeal play is now so perceptive and clairvoyant so as to be able to recognize that a baserunner intentionally ran into the path of a ball thrown from directly behind them??? Seriously, you make that call in a tight, big game and I guarantee that you'll see a coach absolutely lose their freaking mind.

 

[MTR]

So... please explain how an umpire that needs to be clued in to the specific intent of the defense on an appeal play is now so perceptive and clairvoyant so as to be able to recognize that a baserunner intentionally ran into the path of a ball thrown from directly behind them??? Seriously, you make that call in a tight, big game and I guarantee that you'll see a coach absolutely lose their freaking mind.

Absolutely make that call. If you cannot as an umpire, you don't belong on the field. And it isn't that hard to see.

If a runner is advancing toward a base with nothing in her path and all of a sudden s/he moves in a direction not toward the base, s/he is no longer attempting to gain the base, but interfere with the play. And if in doing so contacts the thrown ball, it is interference. It is no different than a retired runner heading toward 2B leaving the basepath, turning out in the same direction as a throw to complete a deuce at 1B. Intent is not required, but it can be a damn good indicator.

Please note, I referring to this specific play. It should not be confused with a runner approaching third from the outside in anticipation of rounding 3B toward home. That would be the runner taking a specific path to advance with the ball not in the immediate vicinity. Then again, any player who is holding a glove in a specific location before the ball arrives from the OF hasn't been that well coached to begin.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Absolutely make that call. If you cannot as an umpire, you don't belong on the field. And it isn't that hard to see.

If a runner is advancing toward a base with nothing in her path and all of a sudden s/he moves in a direction not toward the base, s/he is no longer attempting to gain the base, but interfere with the play. And if in doing so contacts the thrown ball, it is interference. It is no different than a retired runner heading toward 2B leaving the basepath, turning out in the same direction as a throw to complete a deuce at 1B. Intent is not required, but it can be a damn good indicator.

And how do you know the runner isn't veering to on side of the bag for a hook or fade slide or a slide by/hand tag? And other than the facts that the runner isn't retired and doesn't have eyes in the back of their head and the umpire has to guess what the runner is thinking, its exactly like the retired runner situation you described. And isn't the baserunner allowed to take any path to the bag as long as they're not trying to avoid a tag? And while you're at it, you might as well start throwing out coaches for what he's thinking.

 

[Comp]

Ya because runners hook slide or slide by on the side of the bag the defense is on all the time.