Another rant

[Orange Socks]

If I see another video about an umpire call with regards to Catcher Obstruction...Gah! Even with video, people are so blind. How do you expect an umpire to get calls right in real time, when idiots that have replay video can't get it right?

 

[NJSwampdragons]

On Facebooks "The Fastpitch Zone" I started a massive argument just for fun. I innocently asked "Does the Riseball really rise? Asking for a friend, thanks" And the responses were just amazing to say the least. And yes, I did it to watch the replies from the experts who know everything about pitching. LOL. Comic relief on a Wednesday night and they're still arguing there. lol.

Today though I want to rant about one of the most difficult things I deal with in my instruction: believing success now means success later. It doesn't. Not even close. I'll site 2 examples of when it becomes the worst.

9/10 year old pitchers who can throw strikes 50% or more will probably strike out 12 or more per game. Why? Not because they are "so dominant" but because at that age a good number of girls at that age (and probably boys too, I'm not being sexist I just don't have experience with boy's baseball) are terrified of the ball and many are simply scared to swing. So, the pitcher racks up 12 or more K's per game and mom/dad are already booking flights to UCLA for a college visit. And lets be honest, a pitcher can do this, at this age, using hello elbow mechanics. H/E mechanics pretty much teach someone to throw the ball straight down the middle since the mechanics involved don't allow for proper movement. I'm not suggesting a 9 year old is throwing a riseball, but with practice it's not difficult for a kid to be able to throw strikes using any pitching form. And as I said, that's all it takes when so many young players don't want to swing, aren't even looking to swing the bat, and are afraid of being hit so they don't stay in the batters box. It's almost impossible to tell the parent of this pitcher that what they're seeing now is not how it will be in 2 short years. They won't believe you. And why would they? Their kid is dominant. Their pitching coach is a genius. Fast forward anywhere from 2-5 years later and the new pitching instructor has to get this kid to unlearn so much of what they've done in order to throw properly. Many of these pitchers don't overcome this and it's a shame. Some great athletes give up on pitching, after being a 9 year old phenom because too many H/E mechanics are too difficult for her to get rid of. It can also make the new coach look like a jerk when they have to explain to the pitcher and parents that we're going back to basics and starting from scratch. That's not what parents want to hear. Many are polite and they will thank you for your time, then never return. They'll look for a new H/E instructor that can save the day. And sadly that pitcher will never achieve her potential. But, as grandma would always say, "you can't save every puppy at the pound".

The second is the high schooler, already knowing where she's going for college. And lets use a great example of someone who's going to a Power 5 school. Lets even say this girl, just with natural ability can throw upper 60's. And by sheer velocity alone, she wins games. She's a High School superstar and pitches for a good travel team. How do you tell someone who's throwing 68 (legit 68, not the fabricated speed parents make up or the fabricated speed of ESPN radar guns) that she needs the ball to actually move at the next level? That's a hard sell. The best pitching coach in the world cannot teach someone to throw 70. A kid can either do it or they can't. As a coach you and insure that she's doing everything mechanically correct to get the most speed possible, but you can't teach 70 mph. Which is why so few actually throw that hard. But, trying to tell a kid and parent that throwing that hard without movement is great but, she could be even better with correct spins on the ball and actual ball movement. After all, they have legit arguments against that. They could point to Fouts, Garcia, or others who throw hard without correct spins that are at the height of college softball. And, the coach has to concede that point. Yes, those pitchers are at the top of the game without correct spin on the ball. But the LEGENDS of the game, such as Osterman takes a little less speed on her pitches but adds movement. Osterman could've probably thrown just as hard as Abbott, Garcia, Fouts, etc. but she figured out what all great pitchers do: speed is good, movement is better. She was the US team's #1 pitcher at 38 years old because of this pitching philosophy. But it's a nightmare, unwinnable fight to tell someone who's throwing 70 and winning at 17 yrs old that they could be even better.

For me it's the most frustrating thing I deal with as a coach: convincing a kid who's already winning that they still have things to improve on to be great.

Rant over.

Bill, is there any chance wonky mechanics can lead to early success? My 11 year old just started 12-U and I told her to expect to give up hits and not get many strikeouts given the increased distance, bigger ball and playing with more mature girls. In 7.1 innings vs various teams (small sample size), she has 21Ks (3rd drops have played into the #) and given up 3 hits. Vs the 3rd or 4th best team in our state, she had 5Ks in 1.1 innings vs them (they looked like grown women), which was more strikeouts than that team had in any full game (6) that tournament (which included the 4 best teams in our state). She's not doing it with speed and they've barely called her change-up (probably her best pitch), and she doesn't have pinpoint accuracy.

She and her PC are working to fix her biggest mechanical issue, which is that she lifts her throwing shoulder causing a tilt (looks almost like a baseball pitcher or a bit like Lisa Fernandez). (She's not throwing HE.) But could that wonky flaw be part of her early-age success, causing some type of spin (seems like about 15% of the balls come out as drop balls and they rarely go straight)? DD wants to fix the issue, but I'm curious if it could cause an initial step back. PC thinks a combination of the speed, accuracy, and spin being good enough with a really good arm slot (makes ball tougher to pick up out of the hand) is the reason for success, so she won't lose it. Curious your thoughts?

 

[Shiloh]

Bill, is there any chance wonky mechanics can lead to early success? My 11 year old just started 12-U and I told her to expect to give up hits and not get many strikeouts given the increased distance, bigger ball and playing with more mature girls. In 7.1 innings vs various teams (small sample size), she has 21Ks (3rd drops have played into the #) and given up 3 hits. Vs the 3rd or 4th best team in our state, she had 5Ks in 1.1 innings vs them (they looked like grown women), which was more strikeouts than that team had in any full game (6) that tournament (which included the 4 best teams in our state). She's not doing it with speed and they've barely called her change-up (probably her best pitch), and she doesn't have pinpoint accuracy.

She and her PC are working to fix her biggest mechanical issue, which is that she lifts her throwing shoulder causing a tilt (looks almost like a baseball pitcher or a bit like Lisa Fernandez). (She's not throwing HE.) But could that wonky flaw be part of her early-age success, causing some type of spin (seems like about 15% of the balls come out as drop balls and they rarely go straight)? DD wants to fix the issue, but I'm curious if it could cause an initial step back. PC thinks a combination of the speed, accuracy, and spin being good enough with a really good arm slot (makes ball tougher to pick up out of the hand) is the reason for success, so she won't lose it. Curious your thoughts?

Video please

 

[cnardone]

There are far too many lessons that cannot be taught. Only learned.

 

[NJSwampdragons]

Video please

Not sure these are great angles. And remember, the motion is flawed, and working to be fixed with an active plan. The question was if the flaw is helping due to the young age.

Don’t ask why the catcher threw to 2nd on the 3rd dropped with 2 outs. 2nd pitch in batter video was a 2 seam, rest 4 seams.

 

[MaddDawg12]

That's a tough one. In many cases, the ones who can naturally throw 60 are the ones who have the least work ethic to get better. NOT ALL PEOPLE, spare me the messages about your daughter throwing 60 and works out like a fiend. I'm saying many don't practice like they should. And the ones who want it the most have to work twice as hard to just compete. Maybe her lack of speed is genetics? Maybe it's incorrect mechanics? I don't know. Most speed and power comes from the legs so she has to make sure her pitching as as much of that as possible. I'm sorry to hear she's driving herself mad about it. There is probably something she can do naturally that I, and others, cannot do but would love to. That's not "fair" either. But it's just the way it is. At the end of the day, if she's winning at the top level tournaments (not just the local and regional ones) then coaches will take notice of her effectiveness. I had a girl when I coached at a college that didn't throw 60mph, she was in the 50's. But her movement won her over 20 games that year. So, tell her not to panic and keep working hard. Maybe a coaching change would help, I have no idea who your coach is but if she's not getting what he or she is teaching, regardless of who or how great the coach is, then she has to go to one that can get through to her.

bill, thanks for the feedback!
I think a big part of the speed issue is her arm length/height. Almost al lthe girls pitching north of 55MPH that i've seen here in IL in B or A level tournaments are 5'6" or taller, with only 1 exception. My DD is 5'2", with relatively short arms and small hands...i blame her mom, cause I am 6'6"! LOL
She started w/ a very nice HE pitching coach, at age 10. Noticed that NONE of the good pitchers at State that first year of travel ball had the type of release she did (HE), I started researching softball pitching, and heard about IR. Found a Tincher certified coach, Jonathan Hon. Went for lessons from him for about a year, and then switched to his daughter, Hillary, because she was closer, and related to younger kids better.

 

[Shiloh]

Not sure these are great angles. And remember, the motion is flawed, and working to be fixed with an active plan. The question was if the flaw is helping due to the young age.

Don’t ask why the catcher threw to 2nd on the 3rd dropped with 2 outs. 2nd pitch in batter video was a 2 seam, rest 4 seams.

Thanks.

Your pitching coach is correct.

She's very athletic. She gets the ball across the plate with a consistent release point and her leg drive is very good which creates speed. But she needs to fix her shoulder collapse and learn a reverse posture in order to pitch at higher levels. What's she doing now won't scale.

And to answer an earlier question - natural variation is what separates Simone Biles, Michael Phelps, and Cat Osterman from the rest of us. It may be that her current mechanics confer some advantage. That's not a reason to keep them.

Right now your DD is striking out girls simply because she is throwing strikes consistently and with some speed. At higher ages, everyone will be able to throw strikes consistently. Improved mechanics will help keep her speed up and will be imperative as she learns spins. The game changes at 14U.

 

[Chris8]

Bill that FPZ post was comedic gold. I'm still laughing.

That said your two points are spot on.

We know a kid headed to Alabama well at least when she was 10U....but no longer pitches at 16.

One thing is lack of early success does not mean success later. I've also seen the kid who just keeps working when others stop....and then they are still pitching and elevating their game. Sometimes when it doesn't come as easy...the hard workers end up going further.

Great post.

ETA our DD tried out for a team. 18 level They liked her because they'd had a number of girls come in all saying they were A level pitchers. "Could throw hard inaccurately and a sometimes change up." Their words. They saw our DD and loved what she had. Not as fast but spin and spot down great. We didn't go with this team because of logistics and travel time....but it was interesting hearing coaches who understood the game and pitching versus the tryout where they line 'em up, throw as hard as you can and get their pocket radar readings......That's probably a whole different post.

 

[Hillhouse]

Bill, is there any chance wonky mechanics can lead to early success? My 11 year old just started 12-U and I told her to expect to give up hits and not get many strikeouts given the increased distance, bigger ball and playing with more mature girls. In 7.1 innings vs various teams (small sample size), she has 21Ks (3rd drops have played into the #) and given up 3 hits. Vs the 3rd or 4th best team in our state, she had 5Ks in 1.1 innings vs them (they looked like grown women), which was more strikeouts than that team had in any full game (6) that tournament (which included the 4 best teams in our state). She's not doing it with speed and they've barely called her change-up (probably her best pitch), and she doesn't have pinpoint accuracy.

She and her PC are working to fix her biggest mechanical issue, which is that she lifts her throwing shoulder causing a tilt (looks almost like a baseball pitcher or a bit like Lisa Fernandez). (She's not throwing HE.) But could that wonky flaw be part of her early-age success, causing some type of spin (seems like about 15% of the balls come out as drop balls and they rarely go straight)? DD wants to fix the issue, but I'm curious if it could cause an initial step back. PC thinks a combination of the speed, accuracy, and spin being good enough with a really good arm slot (makes ball tougher to pick up out of the hand) is the reason for success, so she won't lose it. Curious your thoughts?

Off the cuff, I have said time and time again that people underestimate how big a deal it is to go from the 11" ball to 12". This causes MASSIVE problems with young pitchers. That extra inch is huge in many young girl's hands (and would be for boys too). This can have a ripple effect in mechanics as they struggle with not losing control of the ball. In a lot of cases, the first thing that happens is we go from getting straight spin with the 11" to bullet like spin with the 12". This is because of the ball size, they feeling like they'll lose the grip. So they cup the wrist, then have to uncup the wrist at release: hence bullet spin.

I'd be cautious about overhauling the mechanics because of this, assuming this is the problem. It takes some time, some growth, and understanding of how to combat this problem. Not a mechanical overhaul.

I'm not sure if that helps.

 

[Hillhouse]

Not sure these are great angles. And remember, the motion is flawed, and working to be fixed with an active plan. The question was if the flaw is helping due to the young age.

Don’t ask why the catcher threw to 2nd on the 3rd dropped with 2 outs. 2nd pitch in batter video was a 2 seam, rest 4 seams.

Advice: Stop with the 2 seam, 4 seam crap. It doesn't alter the mechanics. 2 seam pitches become extremely easy later in life to identify out of the hand by the looser spin. At this age, she's too young to gain any advantage from thinking she's got separate pitches from the simple grip. 2 seam, 4 seam the ball is still being released the same way, no? Then what's she trying to accomplish? Is it hurting her? I don't know. It could if she thinks she has to do wildly different things throwing these different pitches. If so, that's a very different issue. But, this 2 seam 4 seam thing is another avenue to thinking she'll have 9 pitches when it's all said and done. She won't. She'll have 1 pitch she throws 9 different spots. This can be a bear trap, don't fall in.