Another rant

[quincy]

I pitched in HS ball. Just me but I played a lot with arm angles and grips. Best pitch was probably a sidearm curve ball.

SB is more limited but always encouraged DD, and other pitchers, to play with grips and arm angle.

 

[Hillhouse]

He was agreeing with your point in your OP eg most people won’t be Cat because they don’t have her ability (although you were talking about throwing hard but it probably still applies to her even though she doesn’t throw 70)

to be clear, I believe Cat COULD throw 70. In my own career, like Cat's, I could probably throw it as hard as most guys but not pitch for pitch. I wasn't the "blow them away" type pitcher, neither is she. But, she could've done it if she wanted, no question in my mind.

 

[Hillhouse]

I don't think a side-arm, submarine pitcher can get under the ball the same way a softball pitcher does. their arm is too far outside of the body, that limits the amount of backspin someone could get. So I don't think this is apples to apples either. However, their ball does appear to go up... or at the very least it "drops less". However, this is just from their arm angle, not necessarily the spin like a softball pitcher SHOULD be doing on a rise. Just one guy's opinion.

 

[_MIA_]

to be clear, I believe Cat COULD throw 70. In my own career, like Cat's, I could probably throw it as hard as most guys but not pitch for pitch. I wasn't the "blow them away" type pitcher, neither is she. But, she could've done it if she wanted, no question in my mind.

Right..you said that in your OP and I am sure you are correct. Either way, natural ability applies to other things as well. I know in baseball having long fingers is an advantage with regards to pitching. Not sure if that applies to softball as well (I would assume yes) and at her height I would think she probably has fairly large hands for a female which is something you cannot teach..

 

[_MIA_]

I don't think a side-arm, submarine pitcher can get under the ball the same way a softball pitcher does. their arm is too far outside of the body, that limits the amount of backspin someone could get. So I don't think this is apples to apples either. However, their ball does appear to go up... or at the very least it "drops less". However, this is just from their arm angle, not necessarily the spin like a softball pitcher SHOULD be doing on a rise. Just one guy's opinion.

She was talking about crossing the plate at a height higher than where it was released (for balls near the strike zone). I was just giving an example. Submariners appear to achieve that for balls up in the zone (but not to the degree FP pitcher’s do considering they are pitching from a mound and the spin like you mentioned)

One thing that is more difficult in baseball though is that for a RH hitter a RH submariner is releasing the ball behind (or nearly behind) the hitter, which you alluded to, which makes it difficult to pick up (guys like Chris Sale and previously, Randy Johnson, do this too with their release points even though they are not submariners)

 

[Hillhouse]

Right..you said that in your OP and I am sure you are correct. Either way, natural ability applies to other things as well. I know in baseball having long fingers is an advantage with regards to pitching. Not sure if that applies to softball as well (I would assume yes) and at her height I would think she probably has fairly large hands for a female which is something you cannot teach..

She does. We compared hand sizes in Feb at the training camp and ours were close to the same size. You're right, you can't teach that. And you can't teach someone to throw 70. I still say Cat could've thrown harder than she does with just a few tweaks of her mechanics. But as she said very openly and without hesitation, she was done pitching after this year's Athletes unlimited series so she wasn't about to change anything at this point in her career. I absolutely understood that. Once when we were talking, she told me about a game years and years ago against Canada. The Canadian coach Mark Smith (men's fp hall of famer) had her picked and called every pitch she was throwing in an exhibition game. She came off the field shaking cause she didn't understand why and how this was happening. I'm not sure if Mike White was with USA at that point or if head coach Ken Eriksen just made her tweak a couple things and she did it. Smith picking pitches stopped. So she was willing to try things differently, just not at 38 yrs old when she only had 6 more months of pitching left in her career. LOL.

 

[NJSwampdragons]

Advice: Stop with the 2 seam, 4 seam crap. It doesn't alter the mechanics. 2 seam pitches become extremely easy later in life to identify out of the hand by the looser spin. At this age, she's too young to gain any advantage from thinking she's got separate pitches from the simple grip. 2 seam, 4 seam the ball is still being released the same way, no? Then what's she trying to accomplish? Is it hurting her? I don't know. It could if she thinks she has to do wildly different things throwing these different pitches. If so, that's a very different issue. But, this 2 seam 4 seam thing is another avenue to thinking she'll have 9 pitches when it's all said and done. She won't. She'll have 1 pitch she throws 9 different spots. This can be a bear trap, don't fall in.

yes, it’s released the same way. Everything is the same but the grip. Really almost a one seamer, and it moves left (outside to a righty). Seems like coach calls it mostly vs lefties. I catch her, so I see it move. All of her catchers say it moves, I’ve asked them. My guess is maybe the pitch will later be replaced by a curve when she is older.

 

[_MIA_]

Really almost a one seamer,

..do explain as maybe FP terminology is different with regards to this

 

[Hillhouse]

..do explain as maybe FP terminology is different with regards to this

I've near heard of a 1 seamer. I assume he means finger pressure on one seam of the ball. NJswamp, how old is your kid? Is she really ready to be working on cut pitches and such? I'll defer to your pitching coach who may know more than anyone, certainly more than me since I've never met you guys but, it just doesn't seem that long ago your were posting videos of a very very very young, developing pitcher. And in less than a year she's learning to cut the ball in and out? I'm not challenging you or your coach, I'm just asking. Because that seems like a VERY fast development.

 

[_MIA_]

I've near heard of a 1 seamer. I assume he means finger pressure on one seam of the ball.

Ok but that isn’t typically how “seamers” are defined..at least as how I understand it.