2 leaving base appeals today

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

First, it was hotter than 2 rats in a wool sock today, so hats off to all girls and umps...

Game 1: runners on first and third, 1 out. Pop up to F4, catch, doubles off runner at first, but not before runner at third scored (without tagging up). Defense leaves field. Coach asks, does that run count? Yessir. (Let me know if you think I got that wrong).

Game 2. Bases loaded, 1 out. Pop up to pitcher, “infield fly” declared, catch, runner at third sprints home (no tag up), close play at plate, but safe, coaches screaming “tag her”, runner screaming “I touched home”, girls looking at me...waiting...finally pitcher goes to tag runner, who takes crazy path and I call her out for out of baseline.

Good times.

 

[CoachJD]

First, it was hotter than 2 rats in a wool sock today, so hats off to all girls and umps...

Game 1: runners on first and third, 1 out. Pop up to F4, catch, doubles off runner at first, but not before runner at third scored (without tagging up). Defense leaves field. Coach asks, does that run count? Yessir. (Let me know if you think I got that wrong).

Game 2. Bases loaded, 1 out. Pop up to pitcher, “infield fly” declared, catch, runner at third sprints home (no tag up), close play at plate, but safe, coaches screaming “tag her”, runner screaming “I touched home”, girls looking at me...waiting...finally pitcher goes to tag runner, who takes crazy path and I call her out for out of baseline.

Good times.

Game 1: Defense needed the fourth out appeal there. Asking if the run counts is the wrong question to ask! Coach needed to appeal her leaving early (even with the third out recorded), in which case you would've called the runner on third out, too. You got that one right.

Game 2: I'm still unclear on when a live ball appeal becomes a dead ball appeal/if the runner scoring changes anything. They may have needed to make a dead ball appeal there? Not sure, but I'd love to find out.

 

[EdLovrich]

Game 1 correct call as above.

Game 2: Touching the plate does nothing, the force was removed when the B was declared out IFR and they weren't appealing her missing the plate.. They could have appealed at third with the ball, tagged the runner, made a verbal appeal once the ball is dead. The ball becomes dead when it goes out of play (not in this case), is batted foul (again not in this case), when it becomes dead by rule (AGAIN not in this case) OR when the umpire calls or grants a request for 'TIME'. LTDR: The ball was live until/unless you killed it. If coach or player had said they were appealing the runner leaving early, I would call 'TIME' and ask them to repeat the question.

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Game 1 correct call as above.

Game 2: Touching the plate does nothing, the force was removed when the B was declared out IFR and they weren't appealing her missing the plate.. They could have appealed at third with the ball, tagged the runner, made a verbal appeal once the ball is dead. The ball becomes dead when it goes out of play (not in this case), is batted foul (again not in this case), when it becomes dead by rule (AGAIN not in this case) OR when the umpire calls or grants a request for 'TIME'. LTDR: The ball was live until/unless you killed it. If coach or player had said they were appealing the runner leaving early, I would call 'TIME' and ask them to repeat the question.

yes, I never killed it. The coaches were only yelling directions at the pitcher, everything was live.

 

[EdLovrich]

finally pitcher goes to tag runner, who takes crazy path and I call her out for out of baseline.

Good times.

Out of base path would have been a pretty easy call considering more than likely nobody but an umpire or a denizen of DFP would know that the runner had to return to 3B via home, so as soon as she headed direct to 3B while a tag was being attempted she was out.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Game 1: Defense needed the fourth out appeal there. Asking if the run counts is the wrong question to ask! Coach needed to appeal her leaving early (even with the third out recorded), in which case you would've called the runner on third out, too. You got that one right.

I read the OP as the offensive coach asking. Even if it were the defense coach asking AND he asked the right question, the defense had left the field and had lost its ability to appeal.

Game 2: I'm still unclear on when a live ball appeal becomes a dead ball appeal/if the runner scoring changes anything. They may have needed to make a dead ball appeal there? Not sure, but I'd love to find out.

Tagging the runner could have been an appropriate live ball appeal ... but that has to be evident. Just tagging her is not clear enough (IMO) to be considered an appeal. Ok, you tagged the runner but what are you appealing? Left third early? Missed home? In this case, the appeal needs to be clarified to be considered. The runner “scoring” has no baring since the ball is still live. The defense could have made a live ball appeal still or waited until time was called and then made a dead ball appeal. Either would have worked (assuming it was proper).

Out of the baseline? Eh ... Need a better description of what happened to offer any thoughts on that.

 

[CoachJD]

I read the OP as the offensive coach asking. Even if it were the defense coach asking AND he asked the right question, the defense had left the field and had lost its ability to appeal.

I overlooked the part about the defense leaving the field in the OP.

Just out of curiosity, does the entire team need to be off the field to lose the ability to appeal? Just one player? What if the players nearest the dugout have reached it, but the outfielders are still on the field?

 

[EdLovrich]

USSSA Rule 9 APEALS
Sec 4. The appeals must be made:
A. before the next legal or illegal pitch;
B. at the end of an inning, before all infielders have left fair territory and the catcher vacates their normal fielding position; or
C. on the last play of the game, before the Umpires leave the field of play.

 

[Cagman]

What am I missing about 1 - if she didn’t tag up, how did the run count? Did the coach need to appeal by throwing over to 3rd? Even with the 3 outs. Maybe I answered my own question - all runners are assumed to have tagged up properly until appealed by the D?

 

[bmakj]

So, for clarity,

in situation one, Defense should have thrown the ball to third before leaving field (since that runner never tagged up), is this the correct way to handle that?

in situation two, couldnt the defense have simply thrown to third, correct?

and in both cases, does throwing to third make obvious what they are appealing? or does someone (Coach, player, etc.) need to ask/declare something to the umpire(s)?