Defacing the Ball

dogpatch · Apr 29, 2024

marriard said:
First there is 100% clear direction on this call. There is no discussion to be had other than how the rules committee has decided it is to be called. Not sure what you don't understand about that. Case books/scenarios are directives on how to interpret and call situations - they are not up for local OR personal feelings discussion. It is how it is to be called.

Second, as I stated above, while they recognized the rule break, they failed to apply the penalty immediately. You can't let the pitch happen - there is no reason for it. It isn't a delayed dead ball and they still have to pitch.

If there is clear direction, please cite the NFHS softball rule to which the clear direction applies. If you are attempting to apply rule 6-2-2, you are incorrect. Rule 6-2-2 specifically states that dirt is NOT considered a foreign substance. Therefore applying dirt to the ball is not illegal. I am still waiting for someone to name the rule that actually states "players shall not apply dirt to the ball". In their 2024 Softball Rules Interpretations, NFHS incorrectly issued an interpretation of a phantom rule.

Also, the delayed dead ball signal IS specified for rule 6-2-2.

DNeeld · Apr 29, 2024

dogpatch said:
Top of the first, one out, second batter of the game, full count.

dogpatch said:
not only did the call change the outcome of an important conference game, but it put the losing team in jeopardy of not qualifying for state playoffs!

Something that happened with the second batter of the game changed the outcome of the entire game? That's.....something.

The Man In Blue · Apr 29, 2024

OK, caught up . . .

Lots of good points on both sides . . .

Yes, NFHS (which I am more and more convinced stands for "Now For Head Shaking" rules) interps say call it this way. Yes, NFHS has a LONG history of using contradictory interpretations to override rules they want to change, but cannot (or cannot in a timely manner). Yes, the NFHS book is full of contradictions, circular logic, and half-completed thoughts.

I have no authority or citation for this next bit, it is just my opinion.

The "defacing the ball" clauses are not only archaic because they were written in an age when balls were made of different materials, but I believe them to be a holdover from baseball and the days when softballs were white. Rubbing dirt on the ball served as a camouflage since it darkened the ball.

ArmWhip · Apr 29, 2024

In my 2022 rule book 6-2-2 starts out "The pitcher shall not at any time during the game be allowed to use tape or other substance on the ball ............." Has this been changed?

eddieq · Apr 29, 2024

Here is how you contact NFHS to explain to them how wrong they are https://www.nfhs.org/who-we-are/contactus

Comp · Apr 30, 2024

Well, I said I was done but got dragged back in on several things that need to be addressed.

rule interpretations ARE NOT RULES. They change that interpretation all the time.

Please enlighten us on all of these interpretations that have changed "all the time". Yes, when a rule changes the interpretation for that rule is going to change along with it. There is 1 rule interpretation I can think of that has changed without a rule change in the last 12-15 years. Since you say they change all the time, lets see if you actually know which rule interpretation changed. Please share with us which rules have had their rule interpretations changed by NFHS in the last 15 years.

Rule interpretations are put out by the governing body, and that is how the rules are to be applied. Like it or not, the rule interpretations hold every bit as much weight as what the rulebook does. This is a prime example of it, several of you want to argue there is no rule but it has been clearly stated by THE GOVERNING BODY that this is how the rule is to be applied. And not just once, it has been put out numerous times, will get to that later.

Assuming you are a high school umpire, you should discuss this amoung your fellow umpires. See what their thoughts are about interpreting and imposing rules during your games that are not found in the NFHS softball rule book. This may seem to be a trivial issue, but in this case, not only did the call change the outcome of an important conference game, but it put the losing team in jeopardy of not qualifying for state playoffs!

I am a moderator on one of the largest NFHS umpire forums along with several other highly qualified NFHS umpires. This topic has in fact been discussed numerous times and not a single admin or moderator disagrees with the interpretation put out by NFHS. That is how they want the rule called and that is the way it is to be called. As an umpire for any organization, you do not get to pick and choose which rules you will and will not enforce. If you dont want to enforce the rules of that association, then you should not accept games to work for that association. Trivial issue? What other rules do you think are trivial and should not be enforced? Since it was an important conference game should the umpires have just thrown the rulebook out the window and let everything go? If it is a rule in the first inning of the first game of the season it is still a rule in the bottom of the 7th inning of the state championship game. Like it or not, the pitcher did something illegal and the umpire called it. Hopefully your pitcher learned a lesson and wont mess with the ball anymore.

Now, this is not a new rule interpretation. It has been put out several times over the years, here are all of the times it has been put out.

Jan 2013

SITUATION 5: A pitcher places her hands in the dirt; however, she does not wipe the dirt from her hands before touching the ball. RULING: The pitcher does not need to wipe the dirt from her hands before going to the ball. Dirt is NOT a foreign substance; it is part of the field. The pitcher cannot, however, rub the ball into the dirt and deface it. (6-2-2

2017

SITUATION 2 (a) F1 has a powdered rosin bag which she squeezes in her hand then places back on the ground prior to stepping on the pitcher’s plate. Once on the pitcher’s plate she goes directly to the ball without wip ing the drying agent from her hand. (b) F1 takes a comparable drying agent (Gorilla Gold) from her pocket and wipes her hand on it several times, then places the towel back into her pocket. Once on the pitcher’s plate, she goes directly to the ball without wiping her hand. (c) F1 touches the dirt infield with her hand then steps onto the pitcher’s plate and goes directly to the ball without wip ing off her hand. (d) F1 picks up a hand full of dirt and rolls it around in her hand, then drops the dirt and steps onto the pitcher’s plate and goes directly to the ball without wiping off her hand. (e) F1 picks up a handful of dirt and places it onto the ball rubbing the dirt into the ball. RULING: Legal in (a) and (b). The powdered rosin and the comparable drying agent are permitted based on their ability to not transfer to the ball. Wiping these sub stances off the hand prior to touching the ball is not necessary. Legal in (c) and (d). Dirt is not considered a for eign substance. Therefore, it is not necessary to wipe off the hand before going to the ball. Illegal in (e). Rubbing dirt onto the ball is considered defacing the ball and is not per mitted. (6-2-2, 1-3-6

Feb 2021 (same interpretation as above released again)

SITUATION 3: (a) F1 has a powered rosin bag which she squeezes in her hand then places back on the ground prior to stepping on the pitcher’s plate. Once on the pitcher’s plate she goes directly to the ball without wiping the drying agent from her hand. (b) F1 takes a comparable drying agent (Gorilla Gold) from her pocket and wipes her hand on it several times, then places the towel back into her pocket. Once on the pitcher’s plate she goes directly to the ball without wiping her hand. (c) F1 touches the dirt infield with her hand then steps onto the pitcher’s plate and goes directly to the ball without wiping off her hand. (d) F1 picks up a hand full of dirt and rolls it around in her hand then drops the dirt and steps onto the pitcher’s plate and goes directly to the ball without wiping off her hand. (e) F1 picks up a handful of dirt and places it onto the ball rubbing the dirt into the ball. RULING: Legal in (a) and (b). The powered rosin and the comparable drying agent are permitted based on their ability to not transfer to the ball. Wiping these substances off the hand prior to touching the ball is not necessary. Legal in (c) and (d). Dirt is not considered a foreign substance. Therefore, it is not necessary to wipe off the hand before going to the ball. Illegal in (e). Rubbing dirt onto the ball is considered defacing the ball and is not permitted. (1-3-6, 6-2-2

And the 2024 release you are already aware of and have posted a copy of. All I have of that one is an image and cannot cut and past the verbage. This is nothing new, it has been the rule interpretation for at least the last 11 years in documentation. I know it was taught this way even prior to that, so has been at least 15-20 years.

You can argue all you want, but that is directly from NFHS. You want it changed, contact them and lobby for a change, but until then your pitcher needs to operate within the requirements that NFHS has put out.

dogpatch · Apr 30, 2024

ArmWhip said:
In my 2022 rule book 6-2-2 starts out "The pitcher shall not at any time during the game be allowed to use tape or other substance on the ball ............." Has this been changed?

Yes it has. 6-2-2 in the 2024 rule book reads:

ART. 2 . . . The pitcher shall:
a. Not be allowed to use tape or other non-approved substances on the ball or contact points of the pitching hands or fingers; nor shall any other player apply a foreign substance to the ball.
NOTE: Dirt is not considered a foreign substance and does not have to be wiped from the hand prior to contacting the ball.
b. Wipe off their fingers before contacting the ball if they have licked their fingers.
c. Be allowed to use, under the supervision and control of the umpire, powered rosin or any comparable drying agent listed on USA Softball's certified equipment webpage to dry the hand. It is not necessary to wipe off these drying agents before making contact with the ball.
PENALTY: (Art. 2) An illegal pitch shall be called immediately. (6-1-1 PENALTY)
Note: A pitcher shall not wear any item on the pitching hand, wrist, arm, or thighs which the umpire judges to be distracting to the batter. (3-2-9)

As you can see, this rule is not relevant to "defacing" the ball. It also implies that contact with dirt is not an issue. Also, the reference to "6-1-1 PENALTY" conflates calling an illegal pitch immediately with delayed dead ball.

CoachCeetar · Apr 30, 2024

I think it's interesting you claim interpretations don't really change but then posted a whole bunch of them. If anything, the current interpretation is less precise as it takes out the specific 2013 wording of "rubbing the ball into the dirt is considered defacing".

The current wording gives a situation and calls it illegal, but it is also not specific. It says You cannot use dirt to deface the ball but not that the act of putting the ball into the dirt is defacing it. In this instance the pitcher did not "use dirt to deface the ball" as they never even touched dirt.

Plus, the umpire screwed it up! The whole point of this is the umpires are supposed to understand the rules, and clearly don't. If you're rule and your interpretation confuse the umpires, it's not clear and obvious enough, and is a bad rule.

dogpatch · Apr 30, 2024

Comp said:
Well, I said I was done but got dragged back in on several things that need to be addressed.

rule interpretations ARE NOT RULES. They change that interpretation all the time.

Please enlighten us on all of these interpretations that have changed "all the time". Yes, when a rule changes the interpretation for that rule is going to change along with it. There is 1 rule interpretation I can think of that has changed without a rule change in the last 12-15 years. Since you say they change all the time, lets see if you actually know which rule interpretation changed. Please share with us which rules have had their rule interpretations changed by NFHS in the last 15 years.

Rule interpretations are put out by the governing body, and that is how the rules are to be applied. Like it or not, the rule interpretations hold every bit as much weight as what the rulebook does. This is a prime example of it, several of you want to argue there is no rule but it has been clearly stated by THE GOVERNING BODY that this is how the rule is to be applied. And not just once, it has been put out numerous times, will get to that later.

Assuming you are a high school umpire, you should discuss this amoung your fellow umpires. See what their thoughts are about interpreting and imposing rules during your games that are not found in the NFHS softball rule book. This may seem to be a trivial issue, but in this case, not only did the call change the outcome of an important conference game, but it put the losing team in jeopardy of not qualifying for state playoffs!

I am a moderator on one of the largest NFHS umpire forums along with several other highly qualified NFHS umpires. This topic has in fact been discussed numerous times and not a single admin or moderator disagrees with the interpretation put out by NFHS. That is how they want the rule called and that is the way it is to be called. As an umpire for any organization, you do not get to pick and choose which rules you will and will not enforce. If you dont want to enforce the rules of that association, then you should not accept games to work for that association. Trivial issue? What other rules do you think are trivial and should not be enforced? Since it was an important conference game should the umpires have just thrown the rulebook out the window and let everything go? If it is a rule in the first inning of the first game of the season it is still a rule in the bottom of the 7th inning of the state championship game. Like it or not, the pitcher did something illegal and the umpire called it. Hopefully your pitcher learned a lesson and wont mess with the ball anymore.

Now, this is not a new rule interpretation. It has been put out several times over the years, here are all of the times it has been put out.

Jan 2013

SITUATION 5: A pitcher places her hands in the dirt; however, she does not wipe the dirt from her hands before touching the ball. RULING: The pitcher does not need to wipe the dirt from her hands before going to the ball. Dirt is NOT a foreign substance; it is part of the field. The pitcher cannot, however, rub the ball into the dirt and deface it. (6-2-2

2017

SITUATION 2 (a) F1 has a powdered rosin bag which she squeezes in her hand then places back on the ground prior to stepping on the pitcher’s plate. Once on the pitcher’s plate she goes directly to the ball without wip ing the drying agent from her hand. (b) F1 takes a comparable drying agent (Gorilla Gold) from her pocket and wipes her hand on it several times, then places the towel back into her pocket. Once on the pitcher’s plate, she goes directly to the ball without wiping her hand. (c) F1 touches the dirt infield with her hand then steps onto the pitcher’s plate and goes directly to the ball without wip ing off her hand. (d) F1 picks up a hand full of dirt and rolls it around in her hand, then drops the dirt and steps onto the pitcher’s plate and goes directly to the ball without wiping off her hand. (e) F1 picks up a handful of dirt and places it onto the ball rubbing the dirt into the ball. RULING: Legal in (a) and (b). The powdered rosin and the comparable drying agent are permitted based on their ability to not transfer to the ball. Wiping these sub stances off the hand prior to touching the ball is not necessary. Legal in (c) and (d). Dirt is not considered a for eign substance. Therefore, it is not necessary to wipe off the hand before going to the ball. Illegal in (e). Rubbing dirt onto the ball is considered defacing the ball and is not per mitted. (6-2-2, 1-3-6

Feb 2021 (same interpretation as above released again)

SITUATION 3: (a) F1 has a powered rosin bag which she squeezes in her hand then places back on the ground prior to stepping on the pitcher’s plate. Once on the pitcher’s plate she goes directly to the ball without wiping the drying agent from her hand. (b) F1 takes a comparable drying agent (Gorilla Gold) from her pocket and wipes her hand on it several times, then places the towel back into her pocket. Once on the pitcher’s plate she goes directly to the ball without wiping her hand. (c) F1 touches the dirt infield with her hand then steps onto the pitcher’s plate and goes directly to the ball without wiping off her hand. (d) F1 picks up a hand full of dirt and rolls it around in her hand then drops the dirt and steps onto the pitcher’s plate and goes directly to the ball without wiping off her hand. (e) F1 picks up a handful of dirt and places it onto the ball rubbing the dirt into the ball. RULING: Legal in (a) and (b). The powered rosin and the comparable drying agent are permitted based on their ability to not transfer to the ball. Wiping these substances off the hand prior to touching the ball is not necessary. Legal in (c) and (d). Dirt is not considered a foreign substance. Therefore, it is not necessary to wipe off the hand before going to the ball. Illegal in (e). Rubbing dirt onto the ball is considered defacing the ball and is not permitted. (1-3-6, 6-2-2

And the 2024 release you are already aware of and have posted a copy of. All I have of that one is an image and cannot cut and past the verbage. This is nothing new, it has been the rule interpretation for at least the last 11 years in documentation. I know it was taught this way even prior to that, so has been at least 15-20 years.

You can argue all you want, but that is directly from NFHS. You want it changed, contact them and lobby for a change, but until then your pitcher needs to operate within the requirements that NFHS has put out.

I appreciate your explanation and taking the time to share past rules and interpretations. It looks like this phantom dirt-rubbing rule, which neither 1-3-6 nor 6-2-2 actually addresses, has been around for a while. Hopefully in the future it will somehow dawn on the powers-that-be that when they write explanations of rules, they should first make sure those rules are well written and actually exist in the rule book. They need look no further than the NCAA softball rules to see how to do a much better job!

eddieq · Apr 30, 2024

CoachCeetar said:
The current wording gives a situation and calls it illegal, but it is also not specific. It says You cannot use dirt to deface the ball but not that the act of putting the ball into the dirt is defacing it. In this instance the pitcher did not "use dirt to deface the ball" as they never even touched dirt.

The 2024 Interpretations specifically say that rubbing dirt into the ball and rubbing the ball into the dirt are both defacing it.

2024 NFHS Interpretations Document said:
Illegal in (c) and (d). In both of these cases, the player is defacing the ball by taking the dirt and rubbing it into the ball in (c) and rubbing the ball into the dirt in (d). In both cases this action is not allowed. Although dirt is not a foreign substance and it is allowed to be used to dry the hand, it is not allowed to be used to deface the ball.

The document is available here - see "situation 2"

Defacing the Ball

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