76 mph

[sluggers]

I know you were describing how naturally a body could move IR but that doesn't mean that's what's happening from the start.

IR refers to "internal rotation." IR is a basic anatomical body motion. If a kid can't do IR of the forearm, the kid can't open a door. So, yeah, they all know forearm IR. What they don't know is how IR is incorporated into the pitching motion.

Young kids usually start pitching using HE because that's the way Dad throws batting practice. Of course, Dad is trying to make the ball easy to hit. Softball pitchers are trying to make the ball hard to hit.

As you commented eventually may change. But then again not all do.

All high-level pitchers throw IR, including Fernandez, Scarborough, Garcia, Abbott, and on and on. I could list 100 pitchers. I've never seen any college pitcher use HE, but maybe there's a couple out there somewhere.

If a kid comes in for instruction and wants to be "good," a PI should teach what the good pitchers do.

As to style variations: Unlike baseball rules, softball rules define the pitcher's arm slot and, to a large extent, the starting feet position.

 

[RADcatcher]

Not into the part of discussion people trying to explain what they think is best.

anatomical body motion.

*to be specific, this part of conversation is directed at beginners starting out~
To that
The body can do a lot of different motions naturally or forced. That means the body has different options of what to try to do. You are assuming a kid starting out pitching would know how/why to use that specific IR motion and exactly when.
* Just because they can do it doesn't mean they will do it.
* Because the body offers different movement options.

If you want to keep reiterating that same IR conversation go for it. However that is not the beginner route for everybody. Not on board with absolutes or only one way to reach success. As I have said before bodies are different and the thinking processes are as well.

 

[PJR202]

Not into the part of discussion people trying to explain what they think is best.


*to be specific, this part of conversation is directed at beginners starting out~
To that
The body can do a lot of different motions naturally or forced. That means the body has different options of what to try to do. You are assuming a kid starting out pitching would know how/why to use that specific IR motion and exactly when.
* Just because they can do it doesn't mean they will do it.
* Because the body offers different movement options.

If you want to keep reiterating that same IR conversation go for it. However that is not the beginner route for everybody. Not on board with absolutes or only one way to reach success. As I have said before bodies are different and the thinking processes are as well.

I would agree with sluggers that if you take a kid who has never pitched, or at least has never had any direct instruction or general direction on the movement, they'll internally rotate. The most common thing I see for a brand new thrower is that they shove the arm up as high as it can go, then leave it fully extended. But they still IR.

And it's important to note that IR and whip are not mutually exclusive. The vast majority of straight arm/HE pitchers I see are NOT facing the ball towarad 2B at the 11:00 position...because it's completely unnatural. Those that DO face 2B have been instructed to do so and are usually very young. They'll stop doing it pretty quickly and the instructor will likely not notice or not care as long as the pitches are going the right way. If you watch slo mo of a lot of HE pitchers you won't see much ball backward, unless maybe it's an instructional video.

 

[RADcatcher]

I would agree with sluggers that if you take a kid who has never pitched, or at least has never had any direct instruction or general direction on the movement, they'll internally rotate.

Sure can understand there is the consideration that you think that would happen but because bodies are different and offer different options, it doesn't always happen. Then there is the factor of the body being controlled by the brain.

Because I have seen IR not happen, I understand it doesn't always happen.


For the most part I'm glad there has been more discussion opened up Beyond IR.

zooooom on to other discussions topics

 

[sluggers]

Not into the part of discussion people trying to explain what they think is best.

???

You're in a forum dedicated to the best way to pitch and the best way to teach pitching. Should we have a forum entitled, "Mediocre Softball Pitching"?

You are assuming a kid starting out pitching would know how/why to use that specific IR motion and exactly when.

I said exactly the opposite. Read what I wrote.

 

[sluggers]

Because I have seen IR not happen, I understand it doesn't always happen.

Show us a video.

 

[PJR202]

Sure can understand there is the consideration that you think that would happen but because bodies are different and offer different options, it doesn't always happen. Then there is the factor of the body being controlled by the brain.

Because I have seen IR not happen, I understand it doesn't always happen.


For the most part I'm glad there has been more discussion opened up Beyond IR.

zooooom on to other discussions topics

Being genuine here...maybe we don't have the same definition of internal rotation with (or without really) regard to pitching.

 

[daywalkerdad]

Where should the left leg land? Should it land on the power line or slightly to the left (rh pitcher)?
What is meant by open?

 

[RADcatcher]

Sluggers, PJR202, There is no argument coming from me about what you want to talk about in pitching mechanics. Just that it seemed sluggers was saying one particular thing is always going to happen with beginners and I wasnt onboard with that.


As you explained the body can do it.
My comment, that doesn't mean the person can replicate it correctly. Because the body has different mechanical options and the brain controls the body.
That was the only thing my comment was about.

 

[Shawn]

Opening rotation is the pitching power source. As Eddie Feigner said in his book, opening is the power source.

The posture and front leg is different. Uses the front leg which affects FSR, creating a hop.