SOFTBALL vs baseball catching differences

[guero_gordo]

Stance issues could be a failure to understand blocking backward. The reason it's called "A Coaches Guide..." is because many coaches are using old or weak knowledge. The Weavers expend a lot of effort to educate coaches.
Usually DD has been able to explain "The way I was instructed was this......." and demonstrate. She'll explain the backward movement is like bunting, taking energy out of the ball. Good coaches either get it, or acknowledge that she already has a system and leave her alone.

IDK what that bunt coverage is about at all.

 

[Greenmonsters]

NSD - I only wish that NECC and their video existed when I caught D1 BB many moons ago. IMO, catching is probably the least understood and poorly trained position in either BB or SB. My DD is a 4-yr NECC student and I've observed a number of other catcing clinics, several led by recent D1 SB catchers, and none hold a candle to how NECC teaches the postion. I suggest you loan your DD's coaches the NECC video and ask them to review it before they try to change her. If they have any sense, they'll realize how much they don't know and defer. If they don't back off, then I'd seriously look for another team.

Good luck - GM

 

[new_sball_dad]

Do they want her scooping up the bunt on the third base line with her front side facing the infield, right throwing hand is toward first, so then she would spin and fire? Or back to the infield, facing 3rd base dugout, scoop and fire?

they want her to "spin and fire" for throws to 1st on all bunts from middle to 3rd base line.
Only time they do not want a "spin and fire" is when its down the 1st baseline.

 

[redhotcoach]

I do not see the 'runners on' stance much in softball. I have seen a few who rise up and turn a little, if that is what you mean. Everyone else makes fun of the girls who do that, ie you have a weak arm!

Most learn to heave it from the regular stance (or even knees when necessary), because they have strong arms and want to be low for target and/or prepared for blocking the down ball or curve ball.

The bunt coverage is odd (in that it seems to ignore the other players), because the pitcher gets to most in front of the mound and as was posted, third has a lot of range over at her line. I am not sure anyone needs to spin. I always heard you try and face the target you are throwing at.

There are lots of strategies..

One thing is that the girls just don't get out from behind the plate that well, so it affects coaching strategies. I have seen coaches put the slowest player at catcher. (whereas boys are taught to get out of there to field the ball). I wish softball catchers worked more on quickness to cover bunts and pop ups!

How does standing taller help you block better? Is is the turn that is an issue? Please explain the catching philosophy for me the dummy.

I have never seen a catcher throw a runner out stealing second from her knees, or without popping up into a throwing stance.

Runner's on is a little wider feet. Thighs level with the ground. It is faster for blocking becauce we just fall or a motion of feet being sweeped out like standing on a rug that is swept out. Try blocking a ball, such as a curve, in the dirt, about 2 feet to your right, from a low on the toes stance that you see alot. Doesn't work very well.

I am not seeing too many slow catchers this days in NCAA softball. Picturing in my mind putting all the starting catchers up against all the starting pitcher in maybe a 40 yard dash (keep it short, prob a lot of pitchers could run much farther).

 

[new_sball_dad]

How does standing taller help you block better? Is is the turn that is an issue? Please explain the catching philosophy for me the dummy.

The way I understood it is:

"no runners on/Relaxed" stance = lower BUTT slighlty narrower feet:
to block from there (get knees on floor) the BUTT must come UP before the knees can go down.


"runners on/ready" stance = raised BUTT slighlty widerfeet:
to block from there (get knees on floor) the BUTT is already UP so the knees can just go down.

that this is how I was taught as a kid so I passed it on to my kids. Just to be sure I wasnt passing on OLD information I odered the NECC DVD and they were saying the same thing and the same can be seen just watching MLB games!

This is part of why I asked here, I dont see much softball on TV to see how high level SB catchers do things.....
youtube vids are a BIG mix I see both ways.....

 

[redhotcoach]

they want her to "spin and fire" for throws to 1st on all bunts from middle to 3rd base line.
Only time they do not want a "spin and fire" is when its down the 1st baseline.

Yes, NO. They should be always picking up the ball with glove side already facing target. NECC teaches on past balls or the more common wild pitch (sorry cheap stab screwball) the catcher should always turn to her left, even if the ball went to the right, so when scooping up to throw her glove hand side is already facing the target in good throwing form.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I do not see the 'runners on' stance much in softball. I have seen a few who rise up and turn a little, if that is what you mean. Everyone else makes fun of the girls who do that, ie you have a weak arm!

Most learn to heave it from the regular stance (or even knees when necessary), because they have strong arms and want to be low for target and/or prepared for blocking the down ball or curve ball.

The bunt coverage is odd (in that it seems to ignore the other players), because the pitcher gets to most in front of the mound and as was posted, third has a lot of range over at her line. I am not sure anyone needs to spin. I always heard you try and face the target you are throwing at.

There are lots of strategies..

One thing is that the girls just don't get out from behind the plate that well, so it affects coaching strategies. I have seen coaches put the slowest player at catcher. (whereas boys are taught to get out of there to field the ball). I wish softball catchers worked more on quickness to cover bunts and pop ups!

How does standing taller help you block better? Is is the turn that is an issue? Please explain the catching philosophy for me the dummy.

SB - the principle purpose of the runners on position is to allow the catcher to effectively block pitches in the dirt and prevent runners from freely advancing. If you think of blocking as basically the knees replacing the toes, from the standard low crouch its a 2-step process 1) the catcher's hips have to go up to unweight the feet so 2) the knees can then drop. From the runners on stance, where the hips are parellel to the ground and the back is flat (so the umpire can see) the hips are already high so its just a 1-step process - the first and only movement is the knees dropping to the ground.

The runers on position also puts the catcher in a better position to be able to throw if the runners attempt to steal. Properly done, the feet are even, not staggered (i.e., left foot in front for a righty thrower). The more the feet are staggered, the more difficult it becomes for the catcher to properly block a pitch that is toward the glove side. Catchers that do this often win the battle (i.e., they may throw out a runner) but lose the war (i.e., give up free bases on PBs or WPs that were preventable with a proper stance).

The NECC website has an "On-line Camp" menu that provides brief (and free!) summaries of key catching techniques.
The New England Catching Camp

 

[hen]

hen,

when I say take the first base side of the plate I mean:
They litterally want her to ENTER the left hand batters box to run towards a ball no matter where it is! So a bunt that stops dead on the 3rd base line right on the chalk, she will stand up, move to her right into the left handers batters box, then come BACK to her left up the 3rd base line to get the ball... I dont get the point of it!

Their explanation makes no sense to me! (they say it has something to do with NOT running into the batter..... ) but this path would take them directly into a right handed batters path to 1st base.....

Ugh that's what I had made out of that but thought it too odd to be true. I'm not sure what that's about except if they want her taking the scenic route... If they're worried about obstruction, I believe they need to read the rules on that because I'm quite certain C has the right of way.

I'd still stick with the runner's on stance (I agree w/your description) but add that if she can keep a relatively low profile (like not sitting upright, but get the butt up while head stays about same height) she shouldn't block out the umpire. For bunts from 3B line to SS do the spin (if she's comfortable with it) and from SS to 1B line round it slightly from the 3B side. As soon as they show bunt she should be getting into the runner's on stance (if no one on) to be quicker out of the box.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Ugh that's what I had made out of that but thought it too odd to be true. I'm not sure what that's about except if they want her taking the scenic route... If they're worried about obstruction, I believe they need to read the rules on that because I'm quite certain C has the right of way.

I'd still stick with the runner's on stance (I agree w/your description) but add that if she can keep a relatively low profile (like not sitting upright, but get the butt up while head stays about same height) she shouldn't block out the umpire. For bunts from 3B line to SS do the spin (if she's comfortable with it) and from SS to 1B line round it slightly from the 3B side. As soon as they show bunt she should be getting into the runner's on stance (if no one on) to be quicker out of the box.

The OP's DD is 9, as in less than 10 years old! Spin and throw is an advanced technique. You need to learn to add and subtract before taking on calculus. Master the fundamentals first and then work on the advanced stuff. Throwing with 10 year olds is dangerous enough without introducing blind-target throws. IMO, KISS for now!

 

[BrianMonk]

Couple things,

As far as the catcher (or 1st baseman for that matter) running into the batter/runner - it's not the catcher's responsiblity to avoid the runner - as long as she is making a play on the ball. It's the offense that has to avoid the defensive player that is making a play on the ball. I've seen a number of collisions when the ball drops in front of the plate and have never seen catcher obstruction called. Heck umpires seem to hate (and sometimes refuse) calling obstruction on catchers even when they clearly are obstructing. If your coaches think otherwise, I'm guess they are not very experienced.

Watch any college softball game on TV. They are on all the time (or will be soon). I don't ever recall a catcher not up higher when runners are - approximately thighs parrell to the ground. I've also never heard it taught any other way. Including the NECC. They definately know what they are doing.

Also, rarely do they throw from the knees. Sometimes it's the quickest way if they are already down blocking or I suppose there are a few that do it this way, but it's not the norm. Again, watch games on TV. You'll find that it's the exception when they throw from the knees.