Preventing Bat Drag

[FiveFrameSwing]

My problem with the site is those that dominate it under mutli user names. I think you will find it it really doesn't have that many true members. That is why I only read it for entertainment. It isn't always who yells the loudest or posts the most that is right. Why many now have dropped off the site that were there to learn. . Many hitting coaches that use to post on that site have dropped off entirely.

It is news to me that the site has people using multiple usernames. Any chance you can share with me the usernames that are the same person?

It sort of seems silly to be using multiple usernames at HI. You figure you have to pay $50/yr for a username. You would think sites like BBF, DFP, BBD, and other free websites on hitting would be more prone to that issue. Almost seems that the membership fee would tend to discourage such foolishness.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

MarkH tried to explain this to you several times at BBF ... to the point that it became silly. "Connection" is an "action" ... he corrected you several times and repeatedly explained it to you. Go back and read his posts to you on the topic.

Actually, connection is a process (or series or sequence of actions); the process of, as much as is possible an/or appropriate, linking up and synchronizing the rotation of the shoulders, arms, and bat.

The point I was making to MarkH was that it's easier to start out explaining it as a series of positions.

Let me be more direct ... it is the "actions" that lead to a "tight HPP" that create the "connection" between the "hands" and the "upper thorax".

There's more to connection than just that.

Also, some hitters (e.g. Mauer and Morneau) start out connected, so clearly what you say is an action isn't (always).

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Coach, D,

It is quicker for me to ask you to Google "fence drill hitting" than write it out. There are many variations. My DD was really casting out, this drill made it very clear to her what she was doing wrong.

At a minimum, I would not do the fence drill as Epstein teaches it because that will create problems with the front elbow.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Actually, connection is a process (or series or sequence of actions); the process of, as much as is possible an/or appropriate, linking up and synchronizing the rotation of the shoulders, arms, and bat.

The point I was making to MarkH was that it's easier to start out explaining it as a series of positions.

Mark explained to you several times that "connection" was not a position, or series of positions.

There's more to connection than just that.

Also, some hitters (e.g. Mauer and Morneau) start out connected, so clearly what you say is an action isn't (always).

Again ... "connection" is not a position.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I have understood this distinction for a very long time.

This is encouraging.

Since you understand that "connection" is an "action" ... can you please go on record as to the "actions" you teach to establish "connection"?

 

[Wellphyt]

Most girls drop their hands and then swing. Players that do this will always have bat drag.

Some girls are taught to keep their hands up until they initiate their swing. These girls typically take their hands to the ball or just turn into the ball. IMO this is an improvement over the first type swing because the hands will stay connected to the back shoulder a little longer. However, these players will slot/tuck their rear elbow straight down to their side, similar to the down stroke if you were to flap your elbows. When the elbow slots this way it is very common for the elbow to get ahead of the hands resulting in bat drag. Also, when the elbow slots like this the hands move forward towards the pitcher. This forward movement of the hands is hard to detect because it is camouflaged by the turning upper torso. Any time a hitter moves their hands towards the pitcher they are decreasing the amount of distance to the on coming pitch and reducing the amount of time they have to swing.

Few if any of the girls will externally rotate their back arm when they initiate their swing. If they can be taught to do this their hands will naturally stay back and up at the back armpit and the bat drag will likely disappear.

Of the ten girls on our 14U travel team, eight drop their hands and then swing; one keeps her hands up and turns into the ball; one externally rotates her back arm.

If it were me, I would do any type drill that will teach the girls how to externally rotate their back arm and throw the barrel.

Most girls have never been taught to throw overhand correctly so you may want to start there.

Good luck!

 

[RichK]

If it were me, I would do any type drill that will teach the girls how to externally rotate their back arm and throw the barrel. Good luck!

Such as? Tewks barrel to the ball? Deltoid drill? What, and in as much detail as possible :>

Wellphyt, I got a big aha when you talked a few weeks/months ago about lowering the elbow (bird flapping) versus externally rotating the forearm (for both throwing and hitting). I can show that to our girls and they get it a bit. I need drills to burn it in.

Tks.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Such as? Tewks barrel to the ball? Deltoid drill? What, and in as much detail as possible :>

Wellphyt, I got a big aha when you talked a few weeks/months ago about lowering the elbow (bird flapping) versus externally rotating the forearm (for both throwing and hitting). I can show that to our girls and they get it a bit. I need drills to burn it in.

Tks.

Bird flapping? I like it. I missed that post ... but I like the analogy and will play with it.

 

[Wellphyt]

Such as? Tewks barrel to the ball? Deltoid drill? What, and in as much detail as possible :>

Wellphyt, I got a big aha when you talked a few weeks/months ago about lowering the elbow (bird flapping) versus externally rotating the forearm (for both throwing and hitting). I can show that to our girls and they get it a bit. I need drills to burn it in.

Tks.

What I finally did with our girls is put them in a group setting with no bats and had them do the "Bird Flap slot" and then the "External Rotation Slot" back to back a few times in slow motion. I had them do this standing erect with their feet shoulder width apart and facing me. We then talked about the difference in how the hands act when doing each method. The "Bird Flap Slot" the hands drop and move forward. The External Rotation Slot" the hands stay back and up at the arm pit. Once they understood the difference I had them just do the "External Rotation Slot" method until they started complaining that their arms were getting tired.

Our season is finished until the fall because High School ball is getting ready to start. However I am going to make a bigger effort when we regroup in the fall to make the "External Rotation Slot" exercise I described above a part of our dynamic stretching routine that we do at the beginning of practice.

Once they get the basic motion down I think it is a good idea to get them to do it with a bat from the toe touch position or what Epstein calls the "Number 1" position. I have found the "Number 1" position very useful when teaching certain movements. IMO it is best to perform new movements in slow motion so they can feel it and you can see that it is being done correctly.

Once they get that down, you may want to have them do the "Helicopter Drill" where they literally throw the bat (smaller tee-ball bat or Swift-Stik) through the air using just their back arm. If peformed correctly the bat will fly through the air like a helicopter blade. If the bat pin-wheels through the air then they have performed it incorrectly. I like the "Helicopter Drill" to help the girls wake up their top hand. IMO the top hand is very active at swing initiation. Without the top hand there is a good chance the upper torso will turn and the hands will get left behind, which is a form of disconnection.

When the back arm external rotates the shaft of the bat is going to want to drop down to a position just off of the deltoid. If the player does not pull back with the top hand as the arm begins to externally rotate the hand pivot point will get sloppy and there is a good chance the barrel will get dumped. So instead of having the back arm in a tight "V" shape as the hands turn the corner, the shape will be more like an "L".

IMO once the girls get comfortable with the external rotation movement, the emphasis needs to shift to the top hand.

 

[RichK]

Thanks Wellphyt. Still noodling on this line, especially "pull back with the top hand" as a descriptor, but I do get the tight V vs. the dumped L position that is the result of it.

If the player does not pull back with the top hand as the arm begins to externally rotate the hand pivot point will get sloppy and there is a good chance the barrel will get dumped.

This is good stuff. Also been using something similar (focus on external rotation slot) in our throwing drills. It's amazing how many different (incorrect) ways girls can want to throw : >