Preventing Bat Drag

[FiveFrameSwing]

The Reverse C is NOT a good diagnostic. You see it in most swings, including those with bat drag.

I'm hard pressed to think when you wouldn't see it.

CO, this swing does not, IMO, represent a "reverse C" ... and IMO this represents a swing with improper use of the hands.

Perhaps I should have referred to the "reverse C" as a "rearward C". When we speak of the "mouse test", we take note of the "knob" of the bat in the hitter's 'ready position' ... in the video below I've drawn a vertical line to highlight that ... we then trace the tip of the barrel (I've added red dots in the clip below) to see if the barrel is indeed sent "rearward", which would be an indication that the hands are 'active'. In this case we don't see the hitter sending the barrel rearward relative to the position of his knob in his 'ready position'.

When we apply the mouse test to Cabrera's swing we see a "reverse C" that has his barrel extending 'rearward' beyond the vertical position of the knob from his ready position.

The difference between a swing that "pulls the barrel" and lacks the "rearward C", and a swing that "turns the barrel" and has a "rearward C", is huge. A swing with the "rearward C" can be thought of as a swing in which the barrel is in the hitting zone for a long length. It will also have more momentum. It's basically a more 'powerful' swing with a higher 'probability' of making contact.

Hopefully this helps you better understand the quality of the "reverse/rearward C".

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I am certainly no hitting expert, but what worked for my 13YO DD was the fence drill. She was dropping her hands and pulling the bat through the zone with her elbows leading the way. The fence drill encourages a tight swing, it is almost impossible for her to get her rear elbow out front of her hands with a tight swing. Showing her the video of her game swing hit home with her to. She could see with her own eyes what she was doing wrong.

We viewed Tewks videos as well. She has been swinging this way for a few years now, and is working on correcting it, the fence drill had the biggest impact on her.

The 'fence drill' can help encourage a "tight HPP", and from that perspective it is a positive.

The cure, IMO, for someone that initially drops their hands is to give the hitter a means to establish "connection" at "swing initiation" ... and that is what 'active hands' will do ... not 'active' in terms of moving the barrel linearly towards 'contact', but 'active' in terms of 'turning' the barrel.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

This is problematic advice.

The hands have to be active but not too active.

You are going to have a difficult time believing this ... but I'll plant the seed and perhaps over time you'll see things differently.

IMO, if you give the 'hands' the 'proper role' ... not a role of 'pulling' ... then they should be at 100%.

Re-read Williams book and take note of what he said should be at 100% and what should be at 80%. Experiment with that advice, and see what it does to your swing. Make sure to listen to the "actions under the hood" when you do this ... and be prepared for it to shed some new light on your current understanding of the swing.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS, so the difference between getting to palm-up/palm-down early and what is traditionally thought of as a barrel dump is the tight (and high?) hand pivot point.

Is that correct?

For a girl who is barrel dumping to get what she feels to be "on plane" early, how do you take that swing and correct it? It would seem working on Tewk's second video demo of the combo of early palm-up/palm-down combined with barrel to the ball would give them the correct feel, right?

Then finally, it is tilt taking the early palm-up/palm-down to the correct plane, as I understand it.

I agree strongly on the need for a good mental image and how challenging that actually is for girls who unlike boys don't emulate major league swings "for fun"....tks.

RichK ... I didn't get into it, but it is important to have a "pinched rear forearm-to-bicep", a "Vee" between your rear forearm and your rear humerus, in your "ready position" and to attempt to maintain that "Vee" through the "RVP connection point" in your swing. This will have multiple benefits, including assisting with the prevention of the 'barrel dump' issue you referred to.

There is also the issue of 'tilt' that you spoke of ... and that needs to be introduced into the swing as well.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

CO, this swing does not, IMO, represent a "reverse C" ... and IMO this represents a swing with improper use of the hands.

Perhaps I should have referred to the "reverse C" as a "rearward C". When we speak of the "mouse test", we take note of the "knob" of the bat in the hitter's 'ready position' ... in the video below I've drawn a vertical line to highlight that ... we then trace the tip of the barrel (I've added red dots in the clip below) to see if the barrel is indeed sent "rearward", which would be an indication that the hands are 'active'. In this case we don't see the hitter sending the barrel rearward relative to the position of his knob in his 'ready position'.

You're not understanding what's going on and why.

First, EVERY swing will have a rearward C. The shape might be diagnostic, but it has nothing to do with active hands. It just means the bat head is rotating.

In the case of the clip above. The red dots stack at first because he drops his hands to adjust (which is diagnostic). Once his hands have dropped into plane, then you see the rearward C. It is a bit flatter, which also may be diagnostic (especially if you see a short C on a pitch down in the strike zone).

IOW, what may be diagnostic is the height of the C; whether it's tall or short.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

The 'fence drill' can help encourage a "tight HPP", and from that perspective it is a positive.

The cure, IMO, for someone that initially drops their hands is to give the hitter a means to establish "connection" at "swing initiation" ... and that is what 'active hands' will do ... not 'active' in terms of moving the barrel linearly towards 'contact', but 'active' in terms of 'turning' the barrel.

Thinking about actively turning the barrel can very easily lead to hyperactive hands and sweeping the bat head which isn't what good hitters do.

They rotate the barrel with the back shoulder.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

You're not understanding what's going on and why.

First, EVERY swing will have a rearward C. The shape might be diagnostic, but it has nothing to do with active hands. It just means the bat head is rotating.

In the case of the clip above. The red dots stack at first because he drops his hands to adjust (which is diagnostic). Once his hands have dropped into plane, then you see the rearward C. It is a bit flatter, which also may be diagnostic (especially if you see a short C on a pitch down in the strike zone).

IOW, what may be diagnostic is the height of the C; whether it's tall or short.

CO, this hitter is prematurely dropping his hands because he hasn't been taught how to properly establish 'connection' in a timely manner within a correct swing sequence. I refer to this issue of initially dropping the hands, at a time that 'connection' should be established, as a premature disconnection issue.

I've corrected this issue several times simply by teaching the action of connection.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Tight HPP is just a rehash of connection.

A “tight HPP” is more than just “connection”.

“Connection”, as I’ve tried to explain many times, is an ‘action’. It is the establishment of a link, via an “under the hood” type 'action', between body segments … such as between the ‘hands’ and the shoulders or upper thorax.

One can be “connected” and yet swing with their arms. This would of course not be a preferred 'connection', but there would still be a linkage between body segments, such as the 'hands' and 'shoulders', that would result in bringing the barrel towards 'contact'. This would not represent a “tight HPP”, yet it is still a form of 'connection'.

A “tight HPP” is about the 'relative' position of the 'hands' relative to the 'rear shoulder'.

“How” one establishes “connection”, and “when” one establishes “connection”, is what I see as an issue in your son’s swing that you posted.

 

[coach D'E]

Thanks for your help. Below is a picture of one of the girls with bat drag. Just a couple of comments though. The girl in the picture uses a very light bat that is evenly balanced. She has hit 2 home runs this year, but has not been hitting the ball as hard lately. I think from the swing from the picture, she hit a line drive to the shortstop who was had to jump to get to the ball. Any other help that you can give based on this photo will be appreciated. Also,
FiveFrameSwing mentions if I frequent “HI”. I do not want to sound naïve, but what is HI?
sru if you have the time, could you please explain the fence drill.
Thanks again for all your help, I hope that everyone learns from this.
D’E

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

DE … a photo is ‘nice’, but it doesn’t tell us “how” she arrived in the position shown in the photo.

We can ‘guess’ … but if you provide a video clip then you’ll receive recommendations that are specific to this girl's swing mechanics.

HI refers to another website on hitting information. I'm not sure if it would be proper to provide a link to that website here. Send me a PM and I'll reply with a link.