Opinions on attacking the lead elbow

[Chris O'Leary]

Your son's barrel is not in plane and his hands make a late adjustment to get on plane and the barrel loops into contact. It is the same thing when a kid drops their hands and tries to catch up to a high fastball. In your son's case it is because he is relying on a shoulder move and it throws him off plane.

Sorry, but this nonsense.

 

[RayR]

Of course it seems like nonsense to you - you can't understand it...

If your hands make a sudden (as in late) change of direction because half way through the swing they are still fused to the rear shoulder (and the shoulder is establishing the swing plane) then the barrel's path is effected.

If you swing a bat and record it you might see it...

Actually, your kid does a wonderful job of establishing contact after you put him behind the eight ball...but as you can clearly see - if the ball wasn't sitting on a tee he wouldn't have a chance in the world to hit that ball with any authority.

About frame 20 he is saying "I better do something quick because I am about shatter the tee..."

All this free advice to put into your next 60.00 DVD...

 

[RayR]

O'Leary? Have you tried this yet?

From the initial positions of the arms in Fig. 7 it might
appear that the left arm is pulling and the right arm is pushing
on the handle, because the handle is rotating counterclockwise.
However, the bat center of mass moves in the
opposite direction to the handle end during the initial part of
the swing, so the net transverse force on the handle must act
in the opposite direction to the direction of motion of the handle. Both arms therefore pull in opposite directions on the
handle, the right arm exerting a greater pull force than the
left arm.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Of course it seems like nonsense to you - you can't understand it...

If your hands make a sudden (as in late) change of direction because half way through the swing they are still fused to the rear shoulder (and the shoulder is establishing the swing plane) then the barrel's path is effected.

If you swing a bat and record it you might see it...

Actually, your kid does a wonderful job of establishing contact after you put him behind the eight ball...but as you can clearly see - if the ball wasn't sitting on a tee he wouldn't have a chance in the world to hit that ball with any authority.

About frame 20 he is saying "I better do something quick because I am about shatter the tee..."

All this free advice to put into your next 60.00 DVD...

This isn't a loop, it's a remnant of a too big uppercut (which is related to the bat drag) and a slight push.

He needs to cut the uppercut down a bit more, and not push so much, but we're working on that.

Basically, he was pulling much too much with his back arm and now he's pushing a bit too much as he tries to compensate and balance out the forces.

No big deal.

 

[ArmWhip]

Take a look at the last frames of this swing, there isn't a golfer in the world who will tell that his hands are exerting a force that is keeping the clubhead from releasing but the proof is right there in the pictures. It's the same in the baseball swing.

Club Shaft Fitting | Golf Swing Analysis | PowerBilt | Columbus OH

Chris, however I agree that your son's swing plane is too steep at the start, but it has nothing to do with a faulty shoulder move he's just not on plane, a simple fix.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Chris, however I agree that your son's swing plane is too steep at the start, but it has nothing to do with a faulty shoulder move he's just not on plane, a simple fix.

There is some truth to this.

I noticed it more when filming from behind.

His thinking about plane is screwed up because he was having to do all this compensating for what his bat drag was doing to his plane. Before, he shoulders were in plane but pulling with the back elbow pushed his front elbow up in turn, which gave him something like a 30 degree uppercut (as if he was leaning back toward the catcher).

Now, we're focusing on setting up mostly in plane and then just rotating from there (with a 10 percent uppercut being the goal).

P.S. As I think about it, this may be something that you have to deal with in girls sooner than boys due to the lower and flatter trajectory of their pitches. He still saw some big looping "curveballs" last year which he was able to hit hard.

 

[RayR]

OK - we just keep making excuses...have you tried this yet?

From the initial positions of the arms in Fig. 7 it might
appear that the left arm is pulling and the right arm is pushing
on the handle, because the handle is rotating counterclockwise.
However, the bat center of mass moves in the
opposite direction to the handle end during the initial part of
the swing, so the net transverse force on the handle must act
in the opposite direction to the direction of motion of the handle. Both arms therefore pull in opposite directions on the
handle, the right arm exerting a greater pull force than the
left arm.

I am working with a girl right now that can't separate her hands from her shoulders - father told me that she couldn't hit an away pitch or off speed stuff to save her life...crushes middle in - one zone hitter...where do you think other teams pitch her?

This isn't a loop, it's a remnant of a too big uppercut (which is related to the bat drag) and a slight push.

He needs to cut the uppercut down a bit more, and not push so much, but we're working on that.

Basically, he was pulling much too much with his back arm and now he's pushing a bit too much as he tries to compensate and balance out the forces.

No big deal.

 

[RayR]

Who said this?

In truth, what happens in the swing is the hitter applies a small quick couple/torque to the handle at the moment the shoulders start rotating in order to get the bat head going and to keep the bat head from wrapping. He then immediately reverses that force to keep the bat head from sweeping out into the path of the ball too soon. In Cross' words...

 

[ArmWhip]

Any explanations on why the club shaft is in an 'unloaded' position in frame 5 ? I have seen reference to an open handed swing drill posted by MTS, I searched but could not find it. Can anyone post a link to it? When I try an open top hand swing at game speed the bat comes out of my hand well before impact which indicates to me that the fingers are applying force to keep the bat from rotating out prematurely. I stress 'game speed' because making a leisurely swing at a ball on tee does not produce the same effect. Chris, I sent you a PM.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

ArmWhip ... here is MTS demonstrating the 'open top hand' drill.

Can't locate the clip at the moment, but from memory SL's daughter gave a decent demonstration of this particular drill.