New rule proposal!

[daywalkerdad]

Im not sure what is circular about the definition of a bunt. A bunt is a deliberate attempt to tap the ball softly within the infield, if its not a bunt attempt then it is a swing.

The bunted 3rd strike rule was around a LONG LONG time before there was ever a slapper in softball.

Let me rewrite and insert the definitions together.
A bunt is a batted ball that is not an attempt at the ball that is not a bunt ..
a swing is an attempt at a pitch that is not a batted that is not swung at.


Yes bunted 3rd strike rule long ago. The reason it came about it was without it the hitter had an unfair advantage to easily keep fouling off pitches.

 

[Comp]

I have absolutely no idea where you got those definitions because neither one makes any sense whatsoever. I cannot find anything remotely similar in any rule book I have at the moment.

A batted ball that is not an attempt at the ball???? A bunt or bunt attempt would count as a strike just as a swing attempt would be. In fact, in NFHS and some other rulesets the batter MUST withdraw the bat before the ball arrives or it is automatically a strike.

A swing is an attempt at a pitch that is not batted that is not swung at? Again, that makes absolutely no sense. For that matter, neither NFHS or USA actually lists a definition of a swing. NFHS does give the definition of a strike which includes a pitch that is swung at and not hit. USA also does not list the definition of a swing but has similar strike definition as NFHS. Now, USA does have in the rule supplement what is considered a swing attempt in determining if the batter offered at the pitch or not, such as did the wrists break, did the bat get out in front of the body etc.

 

[uncdrew]

I agree that it can make games super boring.

And honestly, they're playing for my entertainment. So banning slappers is the way to go. Just strike out already.

 

[Northball]

Im sure this will rustle some feathers but how about instead of making this rule, we just say no slapping?

Consider my feathers rustled.
Not in a mad way, I just like that slapping is part of the game.

 

[Northball]

I'm going to turn this argument around. Instead of too many slapping batters the pitcher cannot defeat, consider when a pitcher is so dominant she strikes out eight out of nine batters every time through the lineup. If you're a parent of the batting team, you are just as frustrated how the game is going and it is about as boring. But we're not going to change any rules when this happens. It's up to the batters to get better.

 

[Vertigo]

Consider my feathers rustled.
Not in a mad way, I just like that slapping is part of the game.

Agree. I’m probably the rare parent that has a pitcher/slapper/switch-hitter kid. I get both sides of the argument - but I do enjoy watching an accomplished slapper, especially a triple-threat, doing their thing. It takes a lot of work to be good at it, especially at the older age groups/college.

ETA: If you hate the soft-slap dinks in the IF, then just play bunt defense. Make the slapper prove that she’s more than a drag-bunter/soft-slapper. Make her beat you.

 

[eagle6]

I like watching a good slapper. DD was a pitcher. Good slappers are trying to HIT the ball into the ground and use speed or power slap the ball. The issue i have is the kid that isn't a true slapper. Is just a fast righty who cant hit that way and is simply check swinging (basically half swing or less while moving forward in the box) from the left side. They aren't trying to hit and are just trying to make contact until they are walked. And yes, i wanted my DD to go up and in. Not in any way to hit the batter, but thats the toughest pitch for those kids to handle.

 

[Vertigo]

And yes, i wanted my DD to go up and in. Not in any way to hit the batter, but thats the toughest pitch for those kids to handle.

My dd always hates down and in as a slapper. If she sees a pitcher relying on that area of the plate she’ll switch back to hitting from the right side.

 

[daywalkerdad]

I have absolutely no idea where you got those definitions because neither one makes any sense whatsoever. I cannot find anything remotely similar in any rule book I have at the moment.

A batted ball that is not an attempt at the ball???? A bunt or bunt attempt would count as a strike just as a swing attempt would be. In fact, in NFHS and some other rulesets the batter MUST withdraw the bat before the ball arrives or it is automatically a strike.

A swing is an attempt at a pitch that is not batted that is not swung at? Again, that makes absolutely no sense. For that matter, neither NFHS or USA actually lists a definition of a swing. NFHS does give the definition of a strike which includes a pitch that is swung at and not hit. USA also does not list the definition of a swing but has similar strike definition as NFHS. Now, USA does have in the rule supplement what is considered a swing attempt in determining if the batter offered at the pitch or not, such as did the wrists break, did the bat get out in front of the body etc.

I agree it makes no sense they are circular. I took the NFHS definition (below) and instead of swung (past tense of swing) I put the definition of swing attempt from baseball rule’s academy. This is the closest rules have for a swing. Then replaced the word bunt with the definition on bunt. I was not doing this that it made sense but to show they were circular.
I know the rules do not really define a swing, this lies the problem. One needs to be defined without using not the other. I would prefer to take not swung out of the bunt which is what I believe you did.
“A bunt is a deliberate attempt to tap the ball softly within the infield, if it’s not a bunt attempt then it is a swing.”
The only problem this is a slappers 90% of the time.
Hopefully this clears it up what I was getting at, putting not a swing in bunt definition, without defining a swing separate from a bunt makes it circular.

NFHS Rule 2-8-1 states that a bunt is simply a legally batted ball not swung at but intentionally tapped with the bat.
A swing is an attempt at a pitch, that is not a bunt

 

[Vertigo]

A little more explanation utilizing the bunt descriptions being mentioned in this thread.

Bunt, Slap and Checked-Swing Quandaries - Referee.com

The photo above provides an interesting conundrum for umpires. While it is just a snapshot, it leads to some intriguing questions and forces us to get into the rules. At the end of the day, the issue remains the same — what do we have on this play? To settle the matter, we need to look at both...

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