My .02... whatever they do, don't fake a play. The fake turns "off" the LBR. IMO, you either sacrifice the BR to 2nd (unless it would be the third out, then you try the play), or you design a play in practice involving the pitcher, catcher, and infielders, and make sure everyone KNOWS what could happen. If you just tell the pitcher to get the ball and throw it to first, but F3 doesn't know to expect the ball, you could have all kinds of problems.
Help With ASA Rule-2nd Base When Walked
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"Wouldn't that be one way to defend against the run though? R1 on 3rd. BR walks. If R1 knows what's going on, they've led off. Catcher returns the ball QUICKLY to the pitcher. Ideally, the pitcher has the ball before the BR gets to 1st. R1 (ignore the BR for a moment) now must make a decision... either back to 3rd or advance toward home. If the pitcher does nothing else, yes, the BR has a free trip to 2nd."
I believe this is incorrect - the look back rule would not go into effect in this situation UNTIL the batter who has walked touches 1B. Until that time, the ball is live and R1 on 3B is not required to go back to 3B just because the pitcher has the ball in the circle.
I believe this is incorrect - the look back rule would not go into effect in this situation UNTIL the batter who has walked touches 1B. Until that time, the ball is live and R1 on 3B is not required to go back to 3B just because the pitcher has the ball in the circle.
This is the correct. Per ASA Rule Supplement #34, " The look back rule does not go into effect for ANY runner until the batter-runner touches first base or is called out, AND the the pitcher has control of the ball within the eight foot radius circle". Upper cases are mine.
This one has worked for me in the past. In fact, we got a double play in the championship game of a tournament using it. We had worked on the play, and called it "Lauren", which was the name of the second baseman. This way, when in that situation I could yell Lauren and everyone knew what to look for (that is when Lauren wasn't day dreaming, and I kept screaming her name
) !Did not know that. Sorry to put out wrong information.
Any fielder that is placed in the base path is in danger of being ran over by the base runner. Then, you are going to have obstruction.
I prefer to throw to the 1st baseman. She has a shorter throw to home than the 2nd baseman. This will stop the runner at 1st and hopefully freeze the runner at 3rd.
Another way is to throw to the SS, who is between the pitcher and 2nd base. Then, the SS tosses or runs the ball to the pitcher.
Of course, you have to have a dependable catcher for her to make any throws at all with a runner on 3rd. If she can't throw to 2nd that is a complete different problem. If that is the case, or if the 2nd baseman isn't dependable, I have the catcher put on an act, where she holds the ball in the ready position and takes a big step in front of the plate. (Not really leaving home.) She can even yell something like "Hey!" Or "Second!" And the infield has to move to their base. They can be yelling, too. "Here!"
I prefer to throw to the 1st baseman. She has a shorter throw to home than the 2nd baseman. This will stop the runner at 1st and hopefully freeze the runner at 3rd.
Another way is to throw to the SS, who is between the pitcher and 2nd base. Then, the SS tosses or runs the ball to the pitcher.
Of course, you have to have a dependable catcher for her to make any throws at all with a runner on 3rd. If she can't throw to 2nd that is a complete different problem.
If that is the case, or if the 2nd baseman isn't dependable, I have the catcher put on an act, where she holds the ball in the ready position and takes a big step in front of the plate. (Not really leaving home.) She can even yell something like "Hey!" Or "Second!" And the infield has to move to their base. They can be yelling, too. "Here!"It's not obstruction if the fielder has the ball. You only throw to 2nd baseman if the runner turns toward 2nd.
My only problem with this is a smart runner on 3rd will stay in the lead off area... they don't have to go back to the bag.
I don't follow that one unless you are trying to trick the runner on third that the ball is going to 2nd.
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Of course, you have to have a dependable catcher for her to make any throws at all with a runner on 3rd. If she can't throw to 2nd that is a complete different problem.
[/quote]You have to have a dependable catcher, pitcher, 2nd base, 1st base, and 3rd base depending on how you structure the play. One weak link and you can end up with the run scoring AND the BR on 2nd.Again, doesn't force the runner on 3rd to commit.
Ball back to the pitcher... as soon as BR touches 1st, R1 needs to commit (right?). If BR goes to 2nd, (R1 should already be at least "leaning" the wrong way), pitcher flips the ball to 2nd baseman. Quick tag then throw home. I'm guessing you've forced R1 to take at least a step or two back toward third, giving the 2nd baseman more time to make the throw home.
I'd love to try this out in practice some time, but since I'm not a coach...
Sorry Sam. On this ONE occasion, the runner does not need to make a decision until the BR has touched 1B. She can hang off the bag, unmoving, until the BR makes it to 1B.
For purposes of this rule, there is NO differentiation in the ASA Rule Book between a BR reaches 1st on a hit and a BR who reaches 1st via a base on balls.
the rule book, rules supplement, and case book refers simply to the batter-runner
Yea, that was pointed out to me earlier. But if the pitcher is holding the ball, when BR touches first, R1 will probably commit back to 3rd, and pitcher can make a quick throw to F4 if BR tries for the steal. If nothing else, R1 is "leaning" the wrong way and that can give the extra second or two for F4 to catch, tag BR (R2?) and throw home.
ETA: I just don't think F4 should go toward 2nd base... they should be in their normal fielding position... shorter throw for the pitcher (doesn't need to turn all the way around), and shorter throw back to home if needed.
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