I have been working with my DD for a few years now. As a 12U pitcher, I would say she is quite capable. She would love to someday pitch at the college level. My DD throws pretty consistent high 40's. Maybe pops 50 on a good day. There are definitely 12U pitchers that throw harder. She has been able to add a few mph every year to her pitching. As a sixth grader, we are looking to add 2-3 mph every year. That would put her in the 60's as a senior. Is that realistic to think we can continue to add that speed. Or do the top level pitchers have the majority of their speed by 12 or 13. I know she needs the movement pitches and she is working hard on those as well. How many of the top college pitchers were dominent at a young age verses became dominent as they got older? She has the work ethic necessary to get there and has shown nice improvement every season. Just curious as to how high her ceiling would be. I read about Kenzie Fowler at Arizona. By 12 she was bringing the heat. She just had to learn to control it. Same with Osterman in Texas. Are they the exception or the rule. Hard to teach that type of speed.
Early stud or steady improvement
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From what I've heard a lot depends on mechanics and physical growth of a pitcher. Some girls peak early; some girls later. I'm also curious as to what other forum members have experienced as I have a young pitcher who is steadily improving.
How do you determine an athlete's ceiling?
How do you determine an athlete's ceiling?
Well, don't mean to splash cold water on you but I think the number one thing I've learned over the past year is it's hard to overcome genetic predisposition.
I don't know where the line is persay but genetics seem to be involved in well over 50% of the scale and hard work, discipline, etc. can get her the rest of the way. If you have both *Jenny Finch* (cough, cough) you can get pretty close to 100%.
I don't know where the line is persay but genetics seem to be involved in well over 50% of the scale and hard work, discipline, etc. can get her the rest of the way. If you have both *Jenny Finch* (cough, cough) you can get pretty close to 100%.
Each kids growing pace is different. IMO I don't feel theres a measurable growing pace for speed.
Personal example is a girl on hs team this year pitched jv last year and was awful......in the 40's, this year 55+. I asked parents if they fed her miricle grow. What they did was switched pitching coaches, new coach started her with pitching as hard as she could, not worrying about hitting spots so much. This multi sport kid dedicated most her free time honing her pitching practices. Majority of the time was exclusive to mastering the fast ball. Once coach felt she had solid control while maxing out her power they worked on a change up. In a game shes having success with just 2 pitches. Her 1st pitching coach taught her solid mechanics for movement pitches. With no speed ball wasn't moving. Now she is getting movement, just can't consistantly hit her spots.....work in progress still. Her new pitching coach directed herto a well run TB club(u14) where its a perfect fit for both I think that added a ton to her personal level of expectation.
Another example is a kid on our TB team(u18) was our #1 4yrs ago, had lights out speed w great movement. She was a bigger kid back then with crazy work ethics! Hasn't grown much since. Now, without much growth(mentaly&physically), her speed is below 'average'. Now our #4 picher, pool play only. Still hits in the 3 or 4 spot and is solid at 1st base.
Food for thought.....
Personal example is a girl on hs team this year pitched jv last year and was awful......in the 40's, this year 55+. I asked parents if they fed her miricle grow. What they did was switched pitching coaches, new coach started her with pitching as hard as she could, not worrying about hitting spots so much. This multi sport kid dedicated most her free time honing her pitching practices. Majority of the time was exclusive to mastering the fast ball. Once coach felt she had solid control while maxing out her power they worked on a change up. In a game shes having success with just 2 pitches. Her 1st pitching coach taught her solid mechanics for movement pitches. With no speed ball wasn't moving. Now she is getting movement, just can't consistantly hit her spots.....work in progress still. Her new pitching coach directed herto a well run TB club(u14) where its a perfect fit for both I think that added a ton to her personal level of expectation.
Another example is a kid on our TB team(u18) was our #1 4yrs ago, had lights out speed w great movement. She was a bigger kid back then with crazy work ethics! Hasn't grown much since. Now, without much growth(mentaly&physically), her speed is below 'average'. Now our #4 picher, pool play only. Still hits in the 3 or 4 spot and is solid at 1st base.
Food for thought.....
Comparing your DD to Osterman and Fowler is pretty silly. Michael Jordan was cut from the varsity basketball team as a HS sophomore. Perhaps he should have quit playhing hoops...
But, on to your question...The first question is, "Has she matured?" Has she developed into a woman's body?
When you talk about speed, you need to think in terms of "one time maximum" and "cruising speed". Cruising speed is how fast can she throw and consistently throw strikes. "One time max" is used by bragging Daddies. "Cruising speed" is, of course, the one that wins games.
I think you are saying her "one time max" is 51MPH. And her cruising speed is "48 MPH"? Is that correct?
Yes. A great deal depends upon your DD's form. If her form is bad, she won't throw over 50 MPH. If it is good, she will easily hit 55 MPH. Can she make it to 60? There are a lot of factors.
As to "majority of the speed"--I don't know what that means. Your DD needs to be consistently throwing 50 MPH by the end of this season. She should be hitting 55 by 14 YOA.
My DD (she was an all-conference D1 pitcher) was cruisng 51 or 52 at 12. She was probably 55 at 15 YOA, and then cruising at 60 MPH as a HS senior. She ended up adding 2 or 3 MPH to her cruising speed in college, although her one time max ended up at 67 MPH. *BUT*--my DD had terrible form until she was 14 YOA. We found a real pitching coach who helped her make tremendous progress. She also matured late.
But, on to your question...The first question is, "Has she matured?" Has she developed into a woman's body?
When you talk about speed, you need to think in terms of "one time maximum" and "cruising speed". Cruising speed is how fast can she throw and consistently throw strikes. "One time max" is used by bragging Daddies. "Cruising speed" is, of course, the one that wins games.
I think you are saying her "one time max" is 51MPH. And her cruising speed is "48 MPH"? Is that correct?
Yes. A great deal depends upon your DD's form. If her form is bad, she won't throw over 50 MPH. If it is good, she will easily hit 55 MPH. Can she make it to 60? There are a lot of factors.
As to "majority of the speed"--I don't know what that means. Your DD needs to be consistently throwing 50 MPH by the end of this season. She should be hitting 55 by 14 YOA.
My DD (she was an all-conference D1 pitcher) was cruisng 51 or 52 at 12. She was probably 55 at 15 YOA, and then cruising at 60 MPH as a HS senior. She ended up adding 2 or 3 MPH to her cruising speed in college, although her one time max ended up at 67 MPH. *BUT*--my DD had terrible form until she was 14 YOA. We found a real pitching coach who helped her make tremendous progress. She also matured late.
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- Jul 26, 2010
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I'd go so far to say that if her form was terrible now, you have a better chance of her picking up speed (by starting over and fixing her form) then if she had perfect form now with nothing to really work on except getting longer and stronger (it's the length of your daughters arm from shoulder to finger that's important, not necessarily how tall she is).
Pretty much everything else has been discussed in this thread. So I'll say one more thing
Your daughter seems like she has a dream. Do everything you can to encourage her to chase her dream. Never discourage a dreamer, there's no worse crime on this little marble we call home. Set goals along the way to her dream. 2-3mph seems very obtainable and realistic, while still requiring effort to accomplish, sounds like a good goal to me. Keep setting goals, and keep striving to achive them. Yearly goals are great, but you can also set smaller goals like, "I'll throw 10 great fastballs right on my spot this session", or, "I'm not walking any batters this inning".
Osterman didn't even start to pitch until she was 12 or so. I'm sure she wasn't pitching 51 her first day, so you can even say your daughter is ahead of the curve at becoming an Olympic caliber pitcher.
-W
Pretty much everything else has been discussed in this thread. So I'll say one more thing
Your daughter seems like she has a dream. Do everything you can to encourage her to chase her dream. Never discourage a dreamer, there's no worse crime on this little marble we call home. Set goals along the way to her dream. 2-3mph seems very obtainable and realistic, while still requiring effort to accomplish, sounds like a good goal to me. Keep setting goals, and keep striving to achive them. Yearly goals are great, but you can also set smaller goals like, "I'll throw 10 great fastballs right on my spot this session", or, "I'm not walking any batters this inning".
Osterman didn't even start to pitch until she was 12 or so. I'm sure she wasn't pitching 51 her first day, so you can even say your daughter is ahead of the curve at becoming an Olympic caliber pitcher.
-W
Thanks, Sluggers. That is exactly what I was looking for. Someone who has been through it. My DD is still in a growing period. Her form is pretty good. I would think she could be cruising speed of 50 by the end of the season. Neat to see the progression your DD took. Nice guidelines to look for.
You have to keep in mind that some of the top pitchers, hop, skipped and leaped their way through HS.
Fowler had to redo her entire delivery, after the WCWS, and is getting shelled by some of the top teams, this year. We are watching closely in Tucson, to see if she can regain some dominance.
Fowler had to redo her entire delivery, after the WCWS, and is getting shelled by some of the top teams, this year. We are watching closely in Tucson, to see if she can regain some dominance.
Too funny...
- Oct 22, 2009
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The answer is yes, you can reasonably expect to gain 2-3 miles per year all the way to high school and beyond, with growth, mechanics and conditioning.
I have seen some girls peak at 10u-12u These are mostly girls that are large at these young ages. Throwing 50-52mph for a large youngster is great, what is bad is that a lot of time they learn to rely on just their strength and not mechanics and as high schoolers only throw around mid 50's.
I have seen some girls peak at 10u-12u These are mostly girls that are large at these young ages. Throwing 50-52mph for a large youngster is great, what is bad is that a lot of time they learn to rely on just their strength and not mechanics and as high schoolers only throw around mid 50's.
